Cat Pregnancy Questions?

"Skye" wrote in message
ps.com
: : On Aug 14, 7:57 pm, "William Graham"
: : wrote:
: :
: : : With the exception of a few trolls, everyone here has
: : : one thing in common....We all love cats and hate to
: : : see anything bad happen to them.
: :
: : Apparently, that's not entirely true. There are
: : evidently some in here who think
: : it's best to just let stray cats and dogs starve. THAT
: : can't be good.
: :
: : : Anytime you ask strangers for an opinion,
: :
: : which I *didn't*

Actually you did, by posting here.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's been posted, but the simple
act of posting a message on a newsgroup implies that you want replies.
These replies will invariably be people's opinions. Whether or not they
are facts is a different matter entirely.


Ivor

On 15 Aug, 13:52, "Wendy" wrote:
"Skye" wrote in message

s.com...







On Aug 14, 9:43 am, "cindys" wrote:
"Skye" wrote:

1. Generally speaking, how old can a queen be and still be going into
heat and producing offspring? In other words, please God, is there
such a thing as feline menopause??? :-/

Yes. It's called a "spay."

I'm glad your life is so well-ordered and nothing ever gets out of
your control once
in a while. However, please realize that's not the case with everyone
in the world, mkay?

The older cat is a feral cat who I've been feeding for the last two
years, but has
hung around this neighborhood for at least 10. I've somehow grown
attached,
even though she is wild. She will not come to me nor allow me to so
much as touch her. You tell me how to get her to the vet, Cindy S.,
ok?

You buy or borrow (rescue groups and shelters sometimes lend traps - ask
them) a humane trap. If you've been feeding this cat anyway it should be
quite easy to trap her. Check with the rescue groups for recommendations for
low-cost spay neuter locations where they will do feral cats. Make an
appointment. The day of or the night before the appointment, put some good
smelly wet food in the back of the trap and set it shortly before the time
that the cat usually shows up to eat. Then wait in an out of sight but not
out of hearing place for the unique sound of a trap tripping. Cover trap
with a large towel and take the cat in the trap to the vet for her spay. If
it's the night before, place a large plastic bag on the floor of a garage or
similar place. Put a thick layer of newspaper on the plastic bag and then
set the trap on them. The cat will be fine in a covered trap overnight.







Last summer, some of the neighbors tried to get rid of her. They did
manage to
catch her kittens and most of them were put to sleep. This summer,
we've managed
to get the kittens before they were found, but we had to pull off
commando-type
raids under cat-hating neighbors porches to do it.

She seems to be safe and stays under the radar all the rest of the
year.

I simply wondered how many more summers I could look forward to
worrying about
this. Or do you just think I should stop feeding her? I mean, what
gives with your
attitude???

If you aren't willing to get her spayed, you are doing more harm than good
by feeding her. You are keeping her healthy enough to continue reproducing
kittens when there are already too many kittens to ever possibly home. You
basically are facilitating the birth of kittens so that they or others like
them will have to be put to death. I know people mean well when they start
feeding strays but the truth is that it's better not to and just let nature
take it's course unless you're willing to commit to doing it right and
spay/neuter the cat.







2. I've got another younger cat, first time queen, shows all the
symptoms of pregnancy - more than a month along. However, every
few days, she's spotting blood from the vulva. Not much though, and
otherwise she acts fine. Is this normal, or should I be contacting
the
vet?

You should be contacting the vet about having her spayed. Why are you
allowing your cats to breed?

This cat is my indoor, well-cared-for, beautiful, loved cat. Yes, I
wanted her to
have kittens. OMG! I'm guilty! Shoot me, but not the cat!
Seriously, I'm not sure
since 9/11/2001, but I THINK America is still free enough that if you
want your
cat to breed, you are allowed to do so. Unless there's some law I'm
not aware
of (under Homeland Security, maybe?). I don't even think you have to
ask
permission from, well, ANYBODY. Lol.

Well, thank you for your, um, help and info, Cindy S. I can assure
you, the
world is a much safer and better place. You can sleep well tonight.
Skye

People tend to get a little bent out of shape with people who are willfully
adding to the cat over-population problem. I volunteer for a cat rescue
group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend we
had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared
to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was
beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA to
get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told her
they couldn't help us because they didn't have room. Our volunteer told them
that we weren't asking them to take the cat and house it but to put it out
of it's misery. The shelter person again said they didn't have room. When it
became obvious that they were miscommunicating the shelter person clarified
that they didn't have any room in their FREEZER where they keep the
euthanized animals until they can be cremated. She said that they couldn't
fit a hampster in the freezer if they had to. THAT'S how many unwanted
animals there are out there. And THAT'S why people tend to get a little
short with someone who is exacerbating the problem.

W- Hide quoted text -

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You buy or borrow (rescue groups and shelters sometimes lend traps - ask
them) a humane trap. If you've been feeding this cat anyway it should be
quite easy to trap her. Check with the rescue groups for recommendations for
low-cost spay neuter locations where they will do feral cats. Make an
appointment. The day of or the night before the appointment, put some good
smelly wet food in the back of the trap and set it shortly before the time
that the cat usually shows up to eat. Then wait in an out of sight but not
out of hearing place for the unique sound of a trap tripping. Cover trap
with a large towel and take the cat in the trap to the vet for her spay. If
it's the night before, place a large plastic bag on the floor of a garage or
similar place. Put a thick layer of newspaper on the plastic bag and then
set the trap on them. The cat will be fine in a covered trap overnight.

Yes, I found that heating the food up attracted them straight to to
the bowl because their sense of smell is so superior to our own. I
couldn't find any society that was willing to lend me a trap, but I
did find a private american citizen on a USAF base that was willing to
lend me one. I was no expert on trapping cats, believe me- In fact, I
had never tried trapping a cat before, but with advice from Phil, I
managed to catch Lucy(fur!!) first time, so please @ least have the
confidence to try it out?
The vet was good enough to come out to us, & treated her immediate
needs, & we took her in the following day to have her spayed.
Lucy(fur!) was the only one that was so shy that we simply couldn't
catch her though. The rest, we were able to entice with food alone.

If you aren't willing to get her spayed, you are doing more harm than good
by feeding her. You are keeping her healthy enough to continue reproducing
kittens when there are already too many kittens to ever possibly home. You
basically are facilitating the birth of kittens so that they or others like
them will have to be put to death. I know people mean well when they start
feeding strays but the truth is that it's better not to and just let nature
take it's course unless you're willing to commit to doing it right and
spay/neuter the cat.

I wonder if you have a society in the USA that will pay towards the
cost of spaying a cat? In the UK we have a society called the Cat
Protection League, & their main objective, is to spay, neuter & advise
on how to catch cats that need fixing. They also rescue cats too, but
are totally reliant on volunteers who are willing to help for nothing.
If you do, these might be the best people to contact? Over here, they
are willing to pay half the cost towards spay or neuter fee's, which
is very helpful if you face the charge personally for a cat that you
don't own & intend to release.I was wondering if you have any similar
programs in the USA that you can go to if you need help like this?


People tend to get a little bent out of shape with people who are willfully
adding to the cat over-population problem. I volunteer for a cat rescue
group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend we
had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared
to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was
beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA to
get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told her
they couldn't help us because they didn't have room. Our volunteer told them
that we weren't asking them to take the cat and house it but to put it out
of it's misery. The shelter person again said they didn't have room. When it
became obvious that they were miscommunicating the shelter person clarified
that they didn't have any room in their FREEZER where they keep the
euthanized animals until they can be cremated. She said that they couldn't
fit a hampster in the freezer if they had to. THAT'S how many unwanted
animals there are out there. And THAT'S why people tend to get a little
short with someone who is exacerbating the problem.

OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I
used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our
community bowl, but having heard this story, I now understand why. Our
community bowl has two objectives. The first was to stop them
starving, & the second was to see that they were fixed. I end up
paying around $30 for a male, & $40 for a female. It's not a huge
amount of money to find, & well worth the hassle of catching them. It
is also worth having a word with your regular vet, to see if they are
willing to do cheaper rates if you take more than say, one a month to
them too.

I knew that things were bad in the USA regarding feral & unwanted
cats, but I had no idea exactly how bad. I hope that story serves as a
reminder to others as to why it is so important to get them spayed &
neutered. I have to say that I am very shocked to hear your story.
That is absolutely horrific!! I can only assume that we lead very
sheltered lives in the UK, or the problem is not yet quite at crisis
point.
Thank you for sharing this story with us.

Sheelagh "o"
( Nice to see you too;o)

"Skye" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 14, 7:57 pm, "William Graham" wrote:

With the exception of a few trolls, everyone here has one thing in
common....We all love cats and hate to see anything bad happen to them.

Apparently, that's not entirely true. There are evidently some in
here who think
it's best to just let stray cats and dogs starve. THAT can't be
good.

Anytime you ask strangers for an opinion,

which I *didn't*

you are risking getting bad
advice.....the question I have is: Why did you post here in the first
place?

For information:

1. To find out if there is an age at which a female cat might stop
breeding
naturally.

2. To find out if my pregnant cat was medically in danger.

To my knowledge, only 1 person attempted to specifically answered both
questions.
The rest is just rabid, nutty farting in the wind to me - with the
exception of your
advice of trapping the older cat.

When I was having trouble with my car, I posted my problem to some
car
newsgroups asking for information. I received 12 responses packed
full
of info so that I was able to get my car fixed quickly. There were no
opinions -
no one accused me of letting my car get in disrepair or putting
pollution into
the air by driving a car, no judgmental attitudes at all. I simply
received
information that I needed.

However, to be honest, I haven't posted on Usenet for a long time and
I've forgotten
how vicious and pompously superior people can act here when they know
they're anonymous. All you can do is killfile some, ignore others,
and pick the most
constructive ones out of the mess.

Skye

Well, you have to understand that not all of us cat lovers agree on
everything.....Exactly what is the best way to help cats is a matter of
opinion, and there are things that some of us would do that others wouldn't
do.....I happen (for example) to believe it is better to let a cat go, and
give it a chance to fend for itself, than it is to put it to sleep.....But
we have had some rousing wars and disagreements on this point. I picked up
my favorite cat from a Burger King parking lot, where someone who couldn't
keep him any longer just dropped him off.....When he tried to beg some
hamburger from me, he got his little fanny thrown in my car, and brought
home permanently. Not all cats are so lucky, so I can understand why others
disagree with me.....

OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I
used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our
community bowl, but having heard this story, I now understand why. Our
community bowl has two objectives. The first was to stop them
starving, & the second was to see that they were fixed. I end up
paying around $30 for a male, & $40 for a female. It's not a huge
amount of money to find, & well worth the hassle of catching them. It
is also worth having a word with your regular vet, to see if they are
willing to do cheaper rates if you take more than say, one a month to
them too.

I knew that things were bad in the USA regarding feral & unwanted
cats, but I had no idea exactly how bad. I hope that story serves as a
reminder to others as to why it is so important to get them spayed &
neutered. I have to say that I am very shocked to hear your story.
That is absolutely horrific!! I can only assume that we lead very
sheltered lives in the UK, or the problem is not yet quite at crisis
point.
Thank you for sharing this story with us.

Sheelagh "o"
( Nice to see you too;o)


It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and
told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's
misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like
maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a
private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us.

We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is
filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving
them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing
is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street
and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though -
or at least one can hope.

I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were
found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one
was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other
because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the
mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the
surviving two.

W

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:20:49 +0000, Skye wrote:

Oh for God's sakes, I would NEVER start feeding a cat or dog just to
quit when it becomes inconvenient for me.

That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this
animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of
kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a
Malthusian problem.

Charlie

Charlie Wilkes wrote:
Oh for God's sakes, I would NEVER start feeding a cat or dog just to
quit when it becomes inconvenient for me.

That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this
animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of
kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a
Malthusian problem.

Charlie

Absolutely nothing at all. I think this would be the ideal answer actually.
The best person to trap her, would be Skye, or someone that would be willing
to assist her to trap her initially. All she needs is a bit of support, to
believe in herself. I know how daunted I felt @ the prospect of trying to
catch Lucy (fur!!). I had no confidence in myself & worride silly that if If
didn't get it right, that she would never trust me again, or even return.
However, with a bit of support & self belief, I had the confidence to try it
out. Mind you, I did worry that If I failed I wouldn't ever get the chance to
even try again, & my immediate worry was that her wounds were festering, & I
knew that if I didn't manage to trap her, that it might have been the end of
her. I think the main thing, is that Skye receives the support she needs, &
to be encouraged to seek help with trapping this elder queen.

IMHO, it is vital that she seeks & finds that support, & It might also help
if she had some outside help with this one too. I don't know what options are
available to her, but I am certain there must be some kind of support? Once
she finds this support, they might even be willing to help her to physically
help her trap her? I also agree that if Skye feels that she simply can't be
associated with the cat's trauma & be affecting their bond, then it would be
best for her to ask for another person to trap her As long as Skye is willing
to spay for the spay fee, I am certain that any human society, RSPCA
assistance, would be happy to help out where they could?( Or, I would like to
think so, anyway?!!) It can't possibly cost that much, as long as it is
planned carefully?


That's commendable, but what is wrong with the idea of trapping this
animal and getting her spayed? What if she comes around with a litter of
kittens? Will you feed them all? Eventually you might be faced with a
Malthusian problem.

Charlie, I had to search for what the meaning of this word meant (Malthusian)


Now that I understand, I agree with you. There is no favour to be gained in
feeding an animal, unless you are prepared to follow the project all the way
through. As long as she spays her, then this is a success story. However, if
she doesn't, then it will generate a whole new set of problems, for several
people having to pick up the pieces (i.e: having to euthanize the kittens,
unless they can all be homed), which is rather unlikely & @ the expense of
shelter cats I guess), &, if the mother doesn't trust humans. With no trust
from the mother, it is unlikely that the kitties would ever be socialised, &
you end up with another litter of kittens, as well as the mother who all need
attending to, one way or another....

This is a difficult one, but my advice is the same as yours, on balance.

I hope that you try to do this Skye?
I felt the same way that you do now, but I managed it, so I have every faith
that you can too.
Good Luck,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200708/1

Wendy wrote:
OMG Wendy, I have never heard such a sad story in my entitre life. I
used to wonder why people got so out of shape when they heard of our
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
Sheelagh "o"
( Nice to see you too;o)

It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and
told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's
misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like
maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a
private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us.

We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is
filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving
them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing
is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street
and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though -
or at least one can hope.

I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were
found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one
was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other
because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the
mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the
surviving two.

W

It's the God's honest truth. I was shocked when the volunteer came back and
told us of the problem she had getting the poor thing put out of it's
misery. It was bent over backwards seizing and covered it what looked like
maggots and the SPCA couldn't help us. The volunteer finally took it to a
private vet who was still open and they euthanized the kitten for us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, I believe every word you said Wendy. I just found it morbidly &
disgustingly unfair, dreadful & sickening really. Each time that I hear a
story like this, it makes me feel so angry with humans, because ultimately,
it is our job to make sure that this doesn't happen. so, to hear that the
volunteer actually understood what you were saying, but still had no room for
the poor little thing, disgusts me!
How terribly sad, wasn't it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
We're smack dab in the middle of kitten season here and I guess everyone is
filled up with cats. There is a shelter in Philadelphia that has been giving
them away for a dollar just so they don't have to euthanize. The sad thing
is that many of these $1 cats will be returned or dumped back on the street
and have to be dealt with later. Maybe there will be more room then though -
or at least one can hope.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This news is also terrible too. To have to be forced into selling a kitten
for a $1 (which = 50pence here- nothing. A bar of chocolate costs the same
price!!!), speaks volumes in how desperate they all are...And, as you rightly
point out, most of them will either throw them out on the street because they
all to ashamed or embarrassed to take them back to the shelter & admit that
things haven't worked out they way they planned it, or simply can't be
bothered with the problem.. And so the cycles starts over once more (

I hope you are right about there being more hope. I feel so ashamed with
humans sometimes!??

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm back up to 17 fosters myself. Two of them are bottle feeders that were
found outside with no mom. There were four kittens to start with but the one
was dead when it arrived at the vets office and they euthanized the other
because it was so sick. I was at the vet's picking up one of my fosters (the
mother of 6 kittens born on Father's Day) and they asked if I could take the
surviving two.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I can only say that I commend you Wendy.
In the last 3 months, I have only had 9 cats & kittens & that was hard work,
so I realise how much you must have put in to this project. Well done! If
only there were other Foster mothers like you out there. I do one day @ my
local shelter a wee, anything that the CPL bring to me, & also a bit of work
for Ragdoll Rescue UK too. In fact I think it was you that advised me that If
I really missed the kitten bit of breeding, then I should try doing rescue
instead. It was one of the best pieces of advice I ever took on board &
followed up. It brings me great satisfaction & I enjoy it n end on the whole.
Of course it has it's bad moments, but what doesn't these days?.

Just out of interest, how long to the shop keep their cats before calling you
to say that they need for you to take them away ? Also, how did you get on
with the 2 kittens that you asked for @ the shop as well, if you don't mind?

Thanks, & good for you too,
Sheelagh "o"

--
Sheelagh "o"

Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200708/1

"Wendy" wrote in message news:S9idnSXf49-
group. We do adoptions from a Pet Smart store on Saturdays. Last weekend
we
had a man bring us a kitten who was obviously on death's door. It appeared
to have injested some type of poison and was having convultions. It was
beyond helping so one of our volunteers took the kitten to the local SPCA
to
get it euthanized. When she arrived there the person at the shelter told
her
they couldn't help us because they didn't have room.

I have to ask. When confronted with this problem, why did *you* not force
yourself to take action? You had a kitten that was obviously in great
distress, you knew it had to be put down and you couldn't immediately find a
vet to do it. All the time and effort you spent trying to do the right thing
and the kitten was suffering. A few seconds of submerging it in a sink and
it's agony would have been over. Relatively quick and painless. That takes
real guts and real love of animals, putting an animal down that you care
for.

I had to do that once to a dog I owned after she got run over by a car. The
way her guts were splayed out on the road and she was still alive yelping in
agony, all I could do was run to get a tire iron and crush her skull. Then I
buried her in my backyard garden. I cried for over a week and it was the
hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I knew it was the right thing to do.

I still cry sometimes when I think of what I had to do, but I know that
under the same circumstances, I'd do it again. Putting aside society's laws
for a moment, if the situation was reversed, I'd want someone to do the same
thing for me. That was the only way I could rationalize myself into doing
what I knew I had to do.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:12:49 -0400, Upscale wrote:

I have to ask. When confronted with this problem, why did *you* not force
yourself to take action? You had a kitten that was obviously in great
distress, you knew it had to be put down and you couldn't immediately find a
vet to do it. All the time and effort you spent trying to do the right thing
and the kitten was suffering. A few seconds of submerging it in a sink and
it's agony would have been over. Relatively quick and painless. That takes
real guts and real love of animals, putting an animal down that you care
for.

It's also illegal in many areas: it's considered animal cruelty for an
unapproved person to use an unapproved method to end the distress of a
suffering animal. It *is* however allowed to *cause* suffering of certain
species during hunting season, provided you have a license (you don't have
to be competent to kill quickly so long as you have the license).

--
T.E.D. )

"Ted Davis" wrote in message

It's also illegal in many areas: it's considered animal cruelty for an
unapproved person to use an unapproved method to end the distress of a
suffering animal.

Of course it's illegal, probably always will be in North America, but that's
not the point as far as I'm concerned. When I put my dog down, it wouldn't
have mattered if there were 20 people there threatening to have me charged,
it was a matter of my own peace of mind. And if I'd had to pay some fine or
serve some type of incarceration, that wouldn't have mattered much either.
It was just a matter of my doing what I felt was needed to be done right
away.