Can You Tell Normal From INSANE Behavior?

A good portion of this post consists of me snipping at you about details
in order to avoid confusion in further posts.

wrote:
HOWEDY rpl,

rpl wrote:

read your "book",

Well thank you, rpl.

For what ?

can't say as I disagree with the parts that are
relevant to general pet ownership.

You can't disagree with ANY parts or the whole
would fall apart and IT WOULD FAIL.

Again you're crossing a line that hasn't been drawn.
(keep reading)

One of the problems you'll face in adapting that
to cat ownership is that most cat owners don't
want or need a formally trained cat,

Don't matter. All you gotta do is apply
the PRINCIPLES and do as many of the
techniques you're able to adapt to your
critter regardless of its species.

I just said that ("can't say as I disagree...").

I don't mind being argued with but try for some consistency.

thus there's no obedience-framework

You can train a 100% reliable come
command in 10 minutes if you follow
the instructions. You can train your
kat

They're called "cats" not "kats". If you are *not* referring to "felis
domesticus" speak up.

to go in ten minutes. If you can
train ANY critter to INSTANTLY COME
and INSTANTLY go you can TOTALLY CON-
TROLL them by simply asking them to
come and go and they'll spin in circles
like Little Black Sambo

Unless there's some purpose other than "because I can", then that's
abuse and does not reinforce (ie: keep consistent) the cat's trust. The
cat or dog *should* come when called when trained to do so, *but* as
much as possible should be aware of the reason that you've called it, to
reinforce trust for future requests from you. Therefore calling for no
reason is not a good reason (outside of initial training).

Though I do note you said "can", not "should"... okay.

and their behavior
problems will turn to butter like that
tiger done in the book.

grin I ain't read that in *decades*... probably a banned book these days.

to explicitly place good-behaviour reinforcement

Good point. THAT'S a "learning theory" fallacy.
snip

No, it's a language difference; I'm not up on "trainer vocabulary", I
meant reinforcement as being simply repetition; the critter gets used to
acting that way. I hope you don't have to clean up any of my previous
references to that.

snip rewards/bribes/positive/negative reinforcement

Only time I've used a "bribe" is in a quick'n'dirty method of getting
kitty to start using the scratching post by sprinkling catnip on it for
a few days.

Common issues in "catworld" include:

IRRELEVENT. ALL temprament and behavior problems
snip
I've snipped those of your answers which were ignorant or that I felt
were posted strictly to the dog groups. The list is of issues, not
necessarily behavioural problems. This is me telling you something so
you can avoid unintentionally causing animals to be injured through your
ignorance.


declawing

JUST SAY NO. The problem for already MUTILATED
kats is simply to PRAISE THEM just like for any
other behavior problem.

declawing is an owner ignorance problem. It (can) cause behavioural
problems in cats. IMNSHO, acceptable alternatives are directing the
cat's scratching routines to a scratching post or

hormone-based behaviour

NO. You AIN'T gettin away with blaming
snip

Cats "in heat" and "on the prowl" are *very* much more intense than
dogs. A female cat in heat is a soon-to-be pregnant cat.

An intact male will literally camp out at an in-heat queen's doorstep
for days on end.

There are other issues such as spraying in males (which can be diverted
but it isn't easy on the nose for the first month or so and no matter
what every once in a while...goddam that stuff stinks). And of course
that makes him the prospective daddy of any kittens in the area.

Males are also inclined to "go walkabout"

YMMV whether you can put up with that as an owner.

My feelings in the matter are that you can, but there's the next issue.

neutering

Surgical sexual mutilation makes critters
FEARFUL and MISTRUSTFUL.

I imagine it does.

The issue unfortunately is societal in nature. Cats hormone levels
cause them to breed at *much* greater than replacement level.

improper toilet etiquette

THAT'S CAUSED BY MISHANDLING unless the
snip

It *can* be caused by mishandling; more often it's a more normal cause;
the cat objects to something that the owner is not aware of or is really
objecting to something. Or as you noted it can be a symptom of a
Urinary Tract Infection.

One of my "girls" will produce a puddle on the floor if I don't
personally take her out for a walk around the neighbourhood at least
once a week. I take the easy way out; I take her out for a walk.

spraying

snip, right idea wrong dictionary

is marking territory; it can be caused by a number of things including
neighbourhood cats that make faces at your cat while she sits in the
window looking out, or (the one I previously mentioned) a cat that's
jealous of your computer, or as you mentioned, anxiety which causes the
cat to reinforce his/her ownership/territory. Not generally an everyday
occurrence but not unusual. Intact male cats of course simply go around
spraying everything unless you can convince them that spraying somewhere
else is a good idea.

Hairballs/puking: can't do much about that except brush the cat
regularly and make sure it's eating right.

Indoor vs. Outdoor

Very much to do with the environment.


None of which are exactly similar to "dogworld";

snip advertisement... is that (DDR) a commercial product ? what is it ?

most quite different.

IRRELEVENT:
snip list of dog behavioural problems and an attestment

Umm...your entire "Part II" is actually a reprint
of some guy/gal named Moore ?

If you'd like to believe so, that's certainly
less harmful than believing what you had been
used to thinking.

so.... you're worried about this guy coming after you with copyright
issues then ?

Yeah I'm sortof kidding, I was reasonably sure it was you're typing but
not enough to be absolutely sure.

I note that you don't tackle "edge cases",

Cut the psychobabble crap.

OK.

that doesn't help the person getting mauled
by the neighbour's pit bull.

You mean EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC
METHODS DO NOT WORK when the subjec it SCARED
snip

You don't handle the "in case you're being *seriously* attacked by an
animal" scenario.

My take I posted, though I can see where some people would warp that to
include cats that are playing or cats that you've ****ed off.

After long reflection I would consider if the pain wasn't clouding my
mind, trying to sound like a cat in deep distress to get it to stop,
before giving up and smacking it. Thankyou. Or submerging my arm in a
bathtub full of water, though that's not likely to be available.

Your ridiculing of the subject does nobody any good.

You're right, of curse.

it's not that, it's that it doesn't do animals any good, either.

pat

pat


Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes:

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

snip etc. more attestments

HOWEDY RPL,

rpl wrote:
A good portion of this post consists of me snipping
at you about details in order to avoid confusion in
further posts.

Good. Let's get down to seriously examining and questioning
the authority which confounds what we're all after through
diametrically opposed philosophies e.g. "learning theory,
alpha theory, operant / classical / pavlovian conditioning,
allelomimetic (copying) behavior, pack / family heirarchy,
reinforcement / punishment Vs effective scientific non
physical psychological conditioning and desensitization
via Ericsonian Freudian techniques.

The words don't matter, just the principles which are
articulated in the "scientific" definitions which may
be TOTALLY misunderstood in non scientific parlance
yet clear to the non scientific reader. Therefore let's
not whip a dead horse with THEORY when we've got SCIENTIFIC
DATA proving both sides, how and why they work or fail
and their EFFECTIVENESS quotient.

I didn't come here to make friends but that's not
out of the question seein as ONLY WON of us can be
right and THAT will make the other WON GRATEFUL to
benefit from this learnin experience.

wrote:
HOWEDY rpl,

rpl wrote:

read your "book",

Well thank you, rpl.

For what ?

For having the integrity to READ the text which SCARES
your pals who warn folks not to read it because it's
all lies and plagiarism and dangerous cruel and it don't
work and that I'm a liar and make things up, for starters.

can't say as I disagree with the parts that are
relevant to general pet ownership.

You can't disagree with ANY parts or the whole
would fall apart and IT WOULD FAIL.

Again you're crossing a line that hasn't been drawn.

Well then, let's DRAW THE LINE. WON CANNOT VIOLATE
the scientific method to suit your whims and fears
or individuality otherWIZE the METHOD WILL FAIL,
just as IT WILL FAIL if you do not RESPECT ALL of
the principles and philosophies as THAT IS the method.

(keep reading)

Let's both. I haven't read ahead but JUST THE FACT
that we're talkin calmly and rationally are a breakthrough
for both of us and will be a REVELATION to those
readers who are totally confounded by the magnitude
of what's goin on.

I'm no less SENSITIVE than you or anyWON else. We
both can be mistaken about "things" like having
been "CRUEL" in our own ways hurting mostly ourselves
in the process just like a parent punishing a child
may justify it by saying "this will hurt me more than
you, but it's for your own good".

Look at my pryor posting in those terms and we'll
SEE the %iles YOUR METHODS get Vs what will happen
when MY methods are correctly employed UNLESS THERE'S
A PATHOLOGY goin on, and then we need a shot of anti-
psychots to break the cycle of defenses and rationalization
which have bee thouroughly instilled just like the
conditional reflex only MORE DEEPLY INGRAINED with
CONSISTENT PERSISTENT VARIABLY REINFORCED REPRESSION
PAIN FEAR DENIAL WITHHOLDING and REWARDS!

IOW, total DISRESPECT for "unconditional love trust and respect."

Of curse, the response is always "well what do
you want us to do when the critter is about to
maul the baby?"

Well, the ANSWER ALWAYS IS, INCONSISTENCY is the
BANE of the scientific method.

One of the problems you'll face in adapting that
to cat ownership is that most cat owners don't
want or need a formally trained cat,

Don't matter. All you gotta do is apply
the PRINCIPLES and do as many of the
techniques you're able to adapt to your
critter regardless of its species.

I just said that ("can't say as I disagree...").

Just wanted to be very clear. We're talkin about
all sentinent beings, even FISH. They respond even
FASTER perhaps because they're curious gregarious
and just lookin for a friend.

I don't mind being argued with but try for some consistency.

That's paramount to the method, ALL of the methdos,
which is WHY when a "method" suggests VIOLATING itself
to suit the INDIVIDUAL, we got the bane of sciences.

thus there's no obedience-framework

You can train a 100% reliable come
command in 10 minutes if you follow
the instructions. You can train your
kat

They're called "cats" not "kats". If you are *not*
referring to "felis domesticus" speak up.

It's all the same same. Let's call them Cat Fish.

to go in ten minutes. If you can
train ANY critter to INSTANTLY COME
and INSTANTLY go you can TOTALLY CON-
TROLL them by simply asking them to
come and go and they'll spin in circles
like Little Black Sambo

Unless there's some purpose other than "because I can",

The puporse is the 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL.

then that's abuse

That's curious, ain't it. Total non physical control
is ABUSE, yet occasionally JERKING CHOKING BANISHING
BRIBING DUMPING and MURDERING innocent critters is
NORMAL.

You're not the first to scream that obscenity here.

And there ya go, another "condidtional reflex" jumpin
out of it's bag at you for makin ME get SENSITIVE. It's
just that it's beyond the realm of REASON that anyWON
can think sayin that is a truly caring parent. Wouldn't
you LOVE to be able to achieve such a state of CON-TROLL
over your loved WONS as to be able to keep them SAFE
while still NOT REPRESSING them causing them to stiffle
curiousity and experimentation and self expression?

Don't forget, in some circles animal studies are STILL
RELIED UPON to set standards for human treatments and
test THEORIES and PROVE LAWS of behavior because animals
don't ANTHROPOMORPHIZE their responses based on their
human expectations, they're working on instinct, reflex
and pryor conditioning.

and does not reinforce (ie: keep consistent) the cat's trust.

That's absurd. Installing a "come and go" command as
a conditional reflex got NUTHIN to do with VIOLATING
TRUST. Trust is the ONLY THING protecting us from
triggering their WILD INSTINCT.

The cat or dog *should* come when called when trained to do so,

No, he MUST. JUST AS YOUR CHILD MUST. Only BETTER.

*but* as much as possible should be aware of
the reason that you've called it,

The RESON is IRRELVENT. "Because I SEZ SO" always
works for mommy and daddy. DON'T IT. Besides, we're
working with CONDITIONAL REFLEX, so the RESON got
NUTHIN to do with ANY behaviors we're addressing.

IN FACT, the behaviors ARE SYMPTOMS and the REASONS
are EXXXCUSES for NOT BEING ABLE to CONDITION those
CHOICES the critter is making. The SCIENTIFIC METHOD
is NO RESPECTOR of the INDIVIDUAL, except as it applies
to individual SPECIES' physical limits and traits.

to reinforce trust for future requests from you.

By the timd the critter GETS to you he's FORGOTTEN WHY.

Therefore calling for no reason is not a good reason

There's EVERY GOOD REASON TO DO SO.

(outside of initial training).

Inasmuch as ANY conditioning will DETERIORATE it should
be refreshed as soon as ANY command or shall we say
REQUEST fails to be carried out the FIRST TIME it's asked.

Though I do note you said "can", not "should"... okay.

If we "can" do things in keeping with the METHOD
then we SHOULD DO THOSE THINGS if for nuthing else,
to FOSTER the METHODOLOGICAL CONDITIONING, i.e.,
the GESTALT or, the WHOLE of the rigid, unforgiving
non confrontational method.

and their behavior problems will turn to butter
like that tiger done in the book.

BEAUSE ALL BEHAVIORS ARE THE SAME SAME SAME SAME.

grin I ain't read that in *decades*...

Yeah. Sambo was SMART!

probably a banned book these days.

Who cares? Breed specific theories are the same.
A dog is a dog as a child is a child and it don't
matter if we're talking kats dogs horses tortises
or fruit flies.

to explicitly place good-behaviour reinforcement

Good point. THAT'S a "learning theory" fallacy.
snip

No, it's a language difference;

We don't argue LANGUAGE we DISCUSS the SCIENCE
of BEHAVIOR, not PREFERENCES and OPINIONS.

We're gonna LEARN to love trust and respect
WON another EVEN IF IT KILLS us TO DO IT. Of
curse, DON'T FORGET, "this IS gonna hurt me
more than it will you" so to speak. So let's
ENJOY where we're goin, cause WON of us is
gonna burn in heel if that's what they PREFER.

I'm not up on "trainer vocabulary",

RIGHT. It's ALL HOKUM! Dr. Von sez it using
the scientific researchers's own case histories
and outlined the progression of behavioral terms.

I meant reinforcement as being simply repetition;

You mean ROTE. That's the SLOWEST MOST INEFFICIENT
method of all, beause the CONTEXT has not been learned.
It's kinda like filing your programs systems in
the computer in different locations so when you
need to run a program you gotta look through all
the files to find the .EXE to open what you got.

the critter gets used to acting that way.

You mean habit. Force of habit can be
brokin in a couple moments of counter
conditioning. Conditioning will not be
dissuaded by force of habit when pupperly
installed as REFLEX.

I hope you don't have to clean up any of my previous
references to that.

Let's not argue semantics, the behaviors and terms
are all the same same same same HOKUM. What you and
me and ALL the readers are interested in is CURING
ALL TEMPERMENT and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS NEARLY INSTANTLY.

How we arrive at THAT is irrelevent. "Whatever works".

snip rewards/bribes/positive/negative reinforcement

Only time I've used a "bribe" is in a quick'n'dirty
method of getting kitty to start using the scratching
post by sprinkling catnip on it for a few days.

Well that's not really a bribe then, you gave
it willingly with no strings attached, despite
that you had HOPES that it would achieve your
training objective. Theoretically you could
click treat train her to unknowingly unwittingly
incontextually go over and claw the post but it'd
take half your natural life, Vs using DEMONSTRATION
or ALLELOMIMETIC behavior and CONTEXTUAL conditional
reflex to direct the kitty to do the scratch post
with zeal, knowing she's been sent on a MISSION
to attack the post like she'd snatch a mouse.

Common issues in "catworld" include:

IRRELEVENT. ALL temprament and behavior problems

snip

I've snipped those of your answers which were ignorant
or that I felt were posted strictly to the dog groups.

You don't get it. The BEHAVIORS ARE A SYMPTOM not
the PROBLEM. The behaviors are IRRELVENT when all
we got to do is CONDITION THEM as taught.

The list is of issues, not necessarily behavioural problems.

The ONLY ISSUE IS: "Is There A Science Of Behavior".

This is me telling you something so you can avoid
unintentionally causing animals to be injured through
your ignorance.

Yes, that's the same argument those same folk
who WORRY that I'm makin an AUTOMATON of the
critter by TEACHING HIM to THINKIN IN CONTEXT
and respond to commands as condtional reflex
through non physical non confrontational techniques.

IOW, that's the PATHOLOGY speakin, RPL. Think of
it as an ADDICTION, because IT IS. You've been
CONDITIONED to REFLEX to states of mind.

declawing

JUST SAY NO. The problem for already MUTILATED
kats is simply to PRAISE THEM just like for any
other behavior problem.

declawing is an owner ignorance problem.
It (can) cause behavioural problems in cats.

NO. IT CAN'T. Despite my sayin to the CONTRARY.
Those "behavior problems" caused by declawing
are the SAME BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS caused by the
MISHANDLING which PROVOKED the declawing or
SURGICAL MUTILATION to force CON-TROLL of
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE behaviors
which are EZily overcome compensated for and
EXXXTINGUISHED by UNCONDTIONAL LOVE TRUST and
RESPECT.

IMNSHO, acceptable alternatives are directing the
cat's scratching routines to a scratching post or

That's ALMOST CORRECT. THAT'S WHY these behaviors
are NOT EXXXYTINGUISHED and IF ANY THING, are only
CHANGED to other, often worse, seemingly non related
TRAINsfer behaviors or ANXIETY RELIEF MECHANISMS.

Think the laws of physics: E=Mc2.

hormone-based behaviour

NO. You AIN'T gettin away with blaming
snip

Cats "in heat" and "on the prowl"

You mean they're AFFECTIONATE.

are *very* much more intense than dogs.

The DOG won't agree.

A female cat in heat is a soon-to-be pregnant cat.

Only if she ESCAPES. We CAN successfully train
a cat not to leave the perimeter of his yard
JUST LIKE a dog, maybe even FASTER.

An intact male will literally camp out at an
in-heat queen's doorstep for days on end.

Like a hungry WON.

There are other issues such as spraying in males

No there AIN'T, not insofar is indoor spraying.

(which can be diverted but it isn't easy on the
nose for the first month or so and no matter
what every once in a while...

Well then, you'll CERTAINLY appreciate being
ABLE to EXXXTINGUISH that behavior IN WON DAY.

goddam that stuff stinks).

I hate it worse than chemical mace.

And of course that makes him the prospective daddy
of any kittens in the area.

NO PROBLEMO.

Males are also inclined to "go walkabout"

NOT if they're PERIMETER TRAINED.

YMMV whether you can put up with that as an owner.

My feelings in the matter are that you can,

Why would you? HOWEsbreaking problems are CAUSED
by MISHANDLING, not TESTICLES.

but there's the next issue.

neutering

Surgical sexual mutilation makes critters
FEARFUL and MISTRUSTFUL.

I imagine it does.

Well them, if it weren't for MISHANDLING
and POOR MANAGEMENT practices surgical
sexual mutlation of male cats would have
NO REDEEMING VALUE, would it.

The issue unfortunately is societal in nature.

Well then, open your doors and let your
critters choose to RETURN TO NATURE. You
can't say that because the kat does X that
you GOT TO ACCEPT IT because THAT would be
INCOINSISTENT with the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

WOULDN'T IT.

Cats hormone levels

ARE IRRELEVENT. If there's a PATHOLOGY
we can address it through effective use
of biochemical and herbal treatments.

cause them to breed at *much* greater than replacement level.

If you're apupriately training and controlling
your kat he AIN'T GONNA BE roving the streets
indiscriminately procreating. Perhaps that's
sumpthin we should strive for with our kids?

improper toilet etiquette

That's about the MOST UNNATURAL occurence WON
could imagine, other than OPPOSITE SEX AGGRESSION
in family pack critters or sibling rivalry.

You'll notice that the EXXXPERTS EXXXPECT
and TOLERATE their own critters PUNISHING
EACH OTHER's behaviors. That's UNCONSCIONALBLE
LOATHESOME DESPICABLE UNCARING UNTHINKING CRUEL
SELFISH SADISTIC human behavior, RLP.

THAT'S CAUSED BY MISHANDLING unless the
snip

It *can* be caused by mishandling;

It could also be caused by a BRAIN TUMOR
or frontal / paralell lobotomy.

more often it's a more normal cause;

THERE AIN'T NO NORMAL REASON for FHOWELING their
own HOWES, RPL, it's INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE
BEHAVIOR, it's about the first thing critters learn.

UNLESS they're SICK or VERY UNHAPPY.

the cat objects to something

RIGHT! That's why we NEVER CONFLICT with them.

that the owner is not aware of

IF WE NEVER CONFLICT with them they'll
NEVER HAVE a behavior they OBJECT TO.

or is really objecting to something.

AS STATED.

Or as you noted it can be a symptom of
a Urinary Tract Infection.

RIGHT. Traditional WIZEdom sez to take the
critter to the vet at first onset of new
inapupriate behaviors. WHY? If we can CURE
that PROBLEM in WON DAY then the VET would
be a WASTE of TIME EFFORT and MONEY.

If we CAN'T CURE a ****ing / sprayin problem
in WON DAY then the critter is EITHER VERY
SICK or YOU AIN'T FOLLOWIN THE METHOD PRECISELY.

One of my "girls" will produce a puddle on the floor
if I don't personally take her out for a walk around
the neighbourhood at least once a week.

That's a neurotic behavior variably reinforced
by your efforts to correct it.

I take the easy way out; I take her out for a walk.

RIGHT. INSTEAD of lettin her follow through with
her passive aggressive behavior and briefly and
NON PHYSCIALLY non confrontationally alternately
variably distract and INSTANTLY PRAISE and allow
the behavior to resume so you can EXXXTINGUISH IT
nearly instantly. Then when you offer a walk it'll
be an UNEXPECTED REWARD therefore it CANNOT BE
UNINTENTIONALLY WITHHELD resulting in aggression:

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

Not surprisingly we been TALKIN ABOUT THAT in a
couple of threads this week, the kat attacking
his owner when he goes near her feed bag.

spraying

snip, right idea wrong dictionary

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George,

is marking territory;

NOT inside their own lair.

it can be caused by a number of things

NOT IF WE GOT 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL.

including neighbourhood cats

IRRELEVENT.

that make faces at your cat while she sits in the
window looking out, or (the one I previously mentioned)

Simply PRAISING him will EXXXTINGUSISH HIS FEARS.

a cat that's jealous of your computer,

SAME SAME. PRAISE IN ADVANCE AND DISTRACT
AND PRAISE ANY SYMPTOMS OF ANXIETY.

or as you mentioned, anxiety which causes the
cat to reinforce his/her ownership/territory.

Right. THAT'S WHY we DON'T DO THAT no more.

Not generally an everyday occurrence but not unusual.

You can EXXXTINGUISH THAT NEARLY INSTANTLY. If you
DON'T, your kat will manifest OTHER temperament and
behavior and physical heelth problems like FUS or
mange or yeast ear infections seizures and OCD'S
like self mutilation.

Intact male cats of course simply go around spraying everything

That's ABSURD.

unless you can convince them that spraying
somewhere else is a good idea.

Spraying is a SYMPTOM OF ANXIETY caused by MISHANDLING:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

Hairballs/puking:

THAT TOO, IS CAUSED BY ANXIETY.

can't do much about that except brush the cat
regularly and make sure it's eating right.

Anxiety causes EXXXCESSIVE SHEDDING and self grooming
(an inwards self satisfying behavior much like professor
dermer's little dog's couch pillow humping).

Indoor vs. Outdoor

Very much to do with the environment.

Outside is the same same, they're AFRAID of
terrortorial aggression. My DDR CURES THAT,
thereby further PROVING EVERY THING I'VE taught.

None of which are exactly similar to "dogworld";

IRRELEVENT.

snip advertisement...

You mean THIS?:

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

is that (DDR) a commercial product ?

Yes.

what is it ?

It's a high frequency constant intermittent
non physical praise in advance state conditioning
device, the same same as Eeg NeuroBiofeedback
training, ONLY BETTER, done AUTOMAGICKALLY which
PROVES EVERY THING we've been talking about,
independent of ANY human interaction.

most quite different.

IRRELEVENT:
snip list of dog behavioural problems and an attestment

That's what we all CASE HISTORY DATA or FORENSIC EVIDENCE.

Umm...your entire "Part II" is actually a reprint
of some guy/gal named Moore ?

If you'd like to believe so, that's certainly
less harmful than believing what you had been
used to thinking.

so.... you're worried about this guy coming
after you with copyright issues then ?

Are you serious or are you trying to derail the DISCUSSION?

Yeah I'm sort of kidding,

Well, that's a lot like DEAD BABY JOKES.

I was reasonably sure it was you're typing but
not enough to be absolutely sure.

O.K., I deserved that WON, too.

I note that you don't tackle "edge cases",

Cut the psychobabble crap.

OK.

that doesn't help the person getting mauled
by the neighbour's pit bull.

You mean EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC
METHODS DO NOT WORK when the subjec it SCARED
snip

You don't handle the "in case you're being
*seriously* attacked by an animal" scenario.

All depends on the OUTCOME you PREFER. We can
use the bunny in the doggy's mouth, the apple
core in the DEAD DOGGYS mouth or we can use
the fighting cock / dog ring or we can use
Croc Hunter Steve Irwin's beautiful demonstration
of positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex
when he accidentally stuck his hand into the
mouth of a 9' gator in his pond.

GIVING UP is the OUTCOME that WINS with NO HARM.

UNLESS the critter is fixin to EAT YOU. Most
animal attacks on humans got NUTHING to do
with FOOD, it's all FEAR and TERRORTORIAL.

My take I posted, though I can see where some
people would warp that to include cats that
are playing or cats that you've ****ed off.

The SYMPTOMS are IRRELEVENT. They'll keep you
PLAYIN GRAB ASS with the phantazmoagoria of
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS instead of EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS.

After long reflection I would consider if the pain
wasn't clouding my mind, trying to sound like a cat
in deep distress to get it to stop, before giving
up and smacking it.

Good point. You mean giving up and smacking it
when your normal natural reflexive SHRIEKING IN
PAIN and FEAR fails to change the attacker's mind.

WE USE THAT TECHIQUE IN ATTACT TRAINING.

Therefore, smacking was NOT a REFLEX, it
was a CONSIDERED APUPRAITE CURE for the
kat's FEAR BEHAVIOR.

E.g., YOUR HUMAN NATURE.

OtherWIZE you'd RELAX like Steve done and
that kat would GIVE UP and let you return
to the CONDITINING PROCESS so we don't have
to do that again. But every time you REFLEX
to the attack with screaming crying and
slapping or otherWIZE intimiating it will
only JUSTIFY HIS FEARS and INCREASE aggression.

Thankyou.

Thank you, RPL. We could be making history.

Or submerging my arm in a bathtub full of water,

That'll heelp, of curse. ANY thing to DISRACT
and PRAISE the thoughts when we lift the curtain
and take a peek of what we fear most will certainly
heelp. Next time we take offense to what each other
are sayin, just picture yourself asleep with that
hand in a tub of warm water and keep that relaxed
state of mind while we suss out the TRUTH and LEARN
TO REFLEX to IT rather than our pryorconditioning.

though that's not likely to be available.

We can stimulate that same thought even more
reliably than we could in real life. Think of
the REALITY of a nightmare.

Your ridiculing of the subject does nobody any good.

You're right, of curse.

it's not that, it's that it doesn't do animals any good, either.

Well then, we're all glad to know we both have
the same agenda and now all we gotta do is iron
out the application of the scientifically proven
formulaes, RPL.

pat

Yours, Jerry:

pat


Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes:

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

snip etc. more attestments


All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092


Here's the ONLY RULES you need:


ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems
And 90% Of DIS-EASE
Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
THAT'S GOOD!
THAT MEANS We can CURE ALL
Temperament And Behavior Problems
And 90% Of DIS-EASE
NEARLY INSTANTLY
Simply By DOING EXXXACTLY, PRECISELY, OPPOSITE
Of HOWE We've Been TAUGHT
By UNIVERSITY TRAINED Behaviorists


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
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Meow


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Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.


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{@); ~ }

wrote:

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,

let it out

humping, hunching,

digestive problems

pacing,

you have mice.

self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,

is the area going bald ? then it's anxiety, no? don't worry about it.

spinning,

nuts.

prolonged barking, barking at shadows,

horny, enjoying the acoustics or trying to psych you out.

overstimulated barking,

stuck somewhere.

fighting, bullying other dogs,

other dog's problem

compulsive digging,

open the door

compulsive scratching,

normal... get a scratching post

compulsive chewing,

remove whatever's stuck in the teeth

frantic behavior,

more than half-an-hour at a time might be a problem

chasing light, chasing shadow,

so what ?

stealing food,

feed other animal separately

digging in garbage can,

use a garbage can lid or use more modern recycling methods

loosing house (toilet) training.

problem with an environment change, problem with owner, or UTI. If it's
a while before you figure out what it is and correct it there might be
the problem of habit to correct, too.

Should not be confused with spraying which is a gesture of
ownership/territory.

inappropriate fearfulness

shrug

aggression.

if it's a problem, channel it somewhere else or play with it.


pat

"rpl" wrote in message
wrote:

Congratulations. You're excessive rhetoric and comments to puppy whizzer has
qualified you as a minor troll. You're filtered just like all the other
garbage.

Upscale wrote:
"rpl" wrote in message
wrote:

Congratulations. You're excessive rhetoric and comments to puppy whizzer has
qualified you as a minor troll. You're filtered just like all the other
garbage.



just imagine my sorrow.