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#31
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#32
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"kaeli" wrote in message ... In article , c864320 @yahoo.com enlightened us with... Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually acquire FeLV? I don´t want lab experiments with vaccines. Would you have something like cats that once tested negative (true negative) and later developed the disease through natural exposure? I´m trying to find the study that supports that vet´s statement that adult cats don´t get FeLV but still haven´t managed. If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't thinking too clearly *LOL*) Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh* Like her conspiracy therory that the veterinary community is "paying off" the pet food industry to make food that gets cats sick so they can make more money. ;-/ P http://www.isabellevets.co.uk/health...fo/vacccat.htm How to vaccinate with Nobivac FeLV against leukaemia virus A primary injection. A second injection three weeks later. Immunisation is achieved one to two weeks after the second vaccination An annual booster vaccination is recommended. In the kitten we start vaccination at 9 weeks of age. Any age of adult cat can be vaccinated. Nobivac Tricat and Nobicat FeLV vaccines can be given at the same time. -- -- ~kaeli~ With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
#33
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"kaeli" wrote in message ... In article , c864320 @yahoo.com enlightened us with... Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually acquire FeLV? I don´t want lab experiments with vaccines. Would you have something like cats that once tested negative (true negative) and later developed the disease through natural exposure? I´m trying to find the study that supports that vet´s statement that adult cats don´t get FeLV but still haven´t managed. If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't thinking too clearly *LOL*) Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh* Like her conspiracy therory that the veterinary community is "paying off" the pet food industry to make food that gets cats sick so they can make more money. ;-/ P http://www.isabellevets.co.uk/health...fo/vacccat.htm How to vaccinate with Nobivac FeLV against leukaemia virus A primary injection. A second injection three weeks later. Immunisation is achieved one to two weeks after the second vaccination An annual booster vaccination is recommended. In the kitten we start vaccination at 9 weeks of age. Any age of adult cat can be vaccinated. Nobivac Tricat and Nobicat FeLV vaccines can be given at the same time. -- -- ~kaeli~ With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
#34
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"Liz" wrote in message om... "Phil P." wrote in message news: Not exactly Mr. Scrooge McDuck. Yeah.. like your deadly delusion about how adult cats can't become infected with FeLV? I never said that. You certanly did! You stated it as a fact. Or your infamous delusion about dissolving calcium oxalate uroliths in cats with water? You will get there. . You won't. Its been a well-known *fact* for *years* calcium oxalate uroliths *cannot* be dissolved in cats. "The only effective treatment for cats with calcium oxalate urolithiasis is surgical removal of all calculi. Unlike the case with struvite calculi, strategies to affect medical dissolution of calcium oxalate calculi have not been successful. " http://www.calf.vetmed.ucdavis.edu:1...4/summary.html "Surgical removal is usually required, although special diets designed to dissolve struvite uroliths are available from your veterinarian; if fed over a period of time, such diets are often successful. At this time, no such diets exist for the dissolution of uroliths composed of other mineral types. " http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/urinary.html I really admire you for trying And I'd really laugh at you and your utterly stupid and asinine therories if you weren't so *dangerous* to the health and welfare of cats. Vet Med Small Anim Clin. 1970. 65(5):461-8. Clinical report on 46 cases of feline urological syndrome Osbaldiston GW, Taussig RA. Thanks. I´ll give it a look. Maybe you'll learn something about cats. They're not test tubes - things work a little differently in real live cats. My information saves cats' lives - yours will kill them. Never happened. That's hard to believe. If you waited for water to dissolve a urinary tract obstruction caused by a calcium oxalate urolith you sure as hell would kill the cat. Actually, I´ve saved a few myself. Yeah, probably by leaving them alone. |
#35
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"Liz" wrote in message om... "Phil P." wrote in message news: Not exactly Mr. Scrooge McDuck. Yeah.. like your deadly delusion about how adult cats can't become infected with FeLV? I never said that. You certanly did! You stated it as a fact. Or your infamous delusion about dissolving calcium oxalate uroliths in cats with water? You will get there. . You won't. Its been a well-known *fact* for *years* calcium oxalate uroliths *cannot* be dissolved in cats. "The only effective treatment for cats with calcium oxalate urolithiasis is surgical removal of all calculi. Unlike the case with struvite calculi, strategies to affect medical dissolution of calcium oxalate calculi have not been successful. " http://www.calf.vetmed.ucdavis.edu:1...4/summary.html "Surgical removal is usually required, although special diets designed to dissolve struvite uroliths are available from your veterinarian; if fed over a period of time, such diets are often successful. At this time, no such diets exist for the dissolution of uroliths composed of other mineral types. " http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/urinary.html I really admire you for trying And I'd really laugh at you and your utterly stupid and asinine therories if you weren't so *dangerous* to the health and welfare of cats. Vet Med Small Anim Clin. 1970. 65(5):461-8. Clinical report on 46 cases of feline urological syndrome Osbaldiston GW, Taussig RA. Thanks. I´ll give it a look. Maybe you'll learn something about cats. They're not test tubes - things work a little differently in real live cats. My information saves cats' lives - yours will kill them. Never happened. That's hard to believe. If you waited for water to dissolve a urinary tract obstruction caused by a calcium oxalate urolith you sure as hell would kill the cat. Actually, I´ve saved a few myself. Yeah, probably by leaving them alone. |
#36
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"Liz" wrote in message m... Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually acquire FeLV? Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably won't like it. Until (if) you ever get there, here's a study that shows just how long its been known that *adult* cats can be infected by FeLV+ cats. 1976! Not too far behind the times, are you? LOL! The study does not refer to kittens, the infection rate in kittens is much, much, higher - so don't even try one of your convolutions and manipulations. Cancer Res 1976 Feb;36(2 pt 2):582-8 Biology of feline leukemia virus in the natural environment. Hardy WD Jr, Hess PW, MacEwen EG, McClelland AJ, Zuckerman EE, Essex M, Cotter SM, Jarrett O "After the infectious nature of FeLV was discovered, a simple FeLV test and removal program was devised to control the spread of the virus in the natural environment. The spread of FeLV was controlled in 45 households by removing the FeLV-infected cats, while in 25 households, where the infected cats were left in contact with the uninfected cats, 12% of the uninfected cats became infected." You do know who Oswald Jarret is, don't you? He discovered the feline leukemia virus in 1963. The Cornell Feline Health Center recommends: "FeLV-positive cats must be prevented from having any contact with the negative cats, perhaps by housing it in a separate room within the house. Separate feeding utensils and litter pans should be provided, and hands should be thoroughly washed and clothing (including shoes) after handling and caring for the positive cat. The positive cat should never be allowed outdoors, where it might come into contact with FeLV-negative cats and transmit the virus." http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/felv.html You don't have much contact with real vets, do you? |
#37
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"Liz" wrote in message m... Oh, one more thing. Do you have any proof that adult cats actually acquire FeLV? Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably won't like it. Until (if) you ever get there, here's a study that shows just how long its been known that *adult* cats can be infected by FeLV+ cats. 1976! Not too far behind the times, are you? LOL! The study does not refer to kittens, the infection rate in kittens is much, much, higher - so don't even try one of your convolutions and manipulations. Cancer Res 1976 Feb;36(2 pt 2):582-8 Biology of feline leukemia virus in the natural environment. Hardy WD Jr, Hess PW, MacEwen EG, McClelland AJ, Zuckerman EE, Essex M, Cotter SM, Jarrett O "After the infectious nature of FeLV was discovered, a simple FeLV test and removal program was devised to control the spread of the virus in the natural environment. The spread of FeLV was controlled in 45 households by removing the FeLV-infected cats, while in 25 households, where the infected cats were left in contact with the uninfected cats, 12% of the uninfected cats became infected." You do know who Oswald Jarret is, don't you? He discovered the feline leukemia virus in 1963. The Cornell Feline Health Center recommends: "FeLV-positive cats must be prevented from having any contact with the negative cats, perhaps by housing it in a separate room within the house. Separate feeding utensils and litter pans should be provided, and hands should be thoroughly washed and clothing (including shoes) after handling and caring for the positive cat. The positive cat should never be allowed outdoors, where it might come into contact with FeLV-negative cats and transmit the virus." http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/felv.html You don't have much contact with real vets, do you? |
#38
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"Phil P."
Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably won't like it. Your study says only 12% became infected, that's very low. I have another one here that says 15% - also very low. Another study says that in kittens susceptibility is much higher. What's interesting is that all of the kittens got the virus (the three that didn't have the virus had FOCMA antibodies indicating that at some point there was exposure) but only 70% developed some disease associated with the virus, that is, only those that did not have FOCMA antibodies. Therefore, some cats do have natural immunity. Another study stated that of 17 feral domestic cats trapped in a FeLV positive environment (other small feline species had the virus), none of them had the virus. I am totally convinced that what I said is correct. Cats do have natural immunity to FeLV (FOCMA antibodies) but some lost this immunity probably due to inbreeding. Remember what I said about the antibody library? The cats that have the gene to produce FOCMA antibodies are naturally immune to FeLV. If you wish to see these studies yourself, go to the national library and search for that number in parenthesis. I'll even make it easy for you and post the link again: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Maybe you could either learn to read or come to reality yourself. And since you keep putting words in my mouth, can you please point out where I said those things? __________________________________________________ _____________________ FIV was less contagious than FeLV in 73 cats residing in an exposure household between 1977 and 1980 as determined by evaluation of sera collected sequentially. In this household, 15 resident cats became FeLV infected whereas no cats contracted FIV infection. (2159993) Ten post-weanling 4-month-old cats, designated "tracers", were placed in a feline leukemia cluster household to determine the efficiency of horizontal transmission of feline leukemia virus (FeLV). Seven of the 10 had virus that could be isolated from plasma. All of these 7 developed a terminal illness within 18 months; 3 developed aplastic anemia, 3 infectious peritonitis, and 1 lymphoma. The remaining 3 were negative for FeLV by both virus isolation and fixed-cell immunofluorescence. These 3 did, however, develop high antibody titers by all four criteria and they remained healthy throughout the examination period. (188773) Conversely, some cats resist development of leukemia or lymphoma following natural exposure to feline leukemia virus in leukemia cluster households, and these cats have high FOCMA antibody titers. These results support the concept of a natural immunosurveillance mechanism against leukemia or lymphoma development in an *outbred* mammalian species. (56224) |
#39
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"Phil P."
Yeah, reality. You should visit the place someday - although you probably won't like it. Your study says only 12% became infected, that's very low. I have another one here that says 15% - also very low. Another study says that in kittens susceptibility is much higher. What's interesting is that all of the kittens got the virus (the three that didn't have the virus had FOCMA antibodies indicating that at some point there was exposure) but only 70% developed some disease associated with the virus, that is, only those that did not have FOCMA antibodies. Therefore, some cats do have natural immunity. Another study stated that of 17 feral domestic cats trapped in a FeLV positive environment (other small feline species had the virus), none of them had the virus. I am totally convinced that what I said is correct. Cats do have natural immunity to FeLV (FOCMA antibodies) but some lost this immunity probably due to inbreeding. Remember what I said about the antibody library? The cats that have the gene to produce FOCMA antibodies are naturally immune to FeLV. If you wish to see these studies yourself, go to the national library and search for that number in parenthesis. I'll even make it easy for you and post the link again: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Maybe you could either learn to read or come to reality yourself. And since you keep putting words in my mouth, can you please point out where I said those things? __________________________________________________ _____________________ FIV was less contagious than FeLV in 73 cats residing in an exposure household between 1977 and 1980 as determined by evaluation of sera collected sequentially. In this household, 15 resident cats became FeLV infected whereas no cats contracted FIV infection. (2159993) Ten post-weanling 4-month-old cats, designated "tracers", were placed in a feline leukemia cluster household to determine the efficiency of horizontal transmission of feline leukemia virus (FeLV). Seven of the 10 had virus that could be isolated from plasma. All of these 7 developed a terminal illness within 18 months; 3 developed aplastic anemia, 3 infectious peritonitis, and 1 lymphoma. The remaining 3 were negative for FeLV by both virus isolation and fixed-cell immunofluorescence. These 3 did, however, develop high antibody titers by all four criteria and they remained healthy throughout the examination period. (188773) Conversely, some cats resist development of leukemia or lymphoma following natural exposure to feline leukemia virus in leukemia cluster households, and these cats have high FOCMA antibody titers. These results support the concept of a natural immunosurveillance mechanism against leukemia or lymphoma development in an *outbred* mammalian species. (56224) |
#40
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kaeli wrote in message
If they *couldn't* get it, why would the vaccine be available for adult animals? Why would they give boosters?? Common sense says if a cat needs a booster, it can get the disease. (IOW, I think that vet wasn't thinking too clearly *LOL*). Of course, it could be that whole conspiracy to make money thing. *heh* Are you really that naive? Please see my reply to Phil. Besides, making money is not a conspiracy, it´s a necessity. |
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