declawing

"Cheryl" wrote in message ...
In ,
Cathouse composed with style:
) wrote in
om

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
In om,
composed with style:

Katra does not have the software/hardware to be a sockpuppet
yet... When she does have the money to do so, (and have not
spent it on the cats),
watch out. ;-)

Damn that sounds like a threat. FTR, it isn't like it costs money
to sock it up.


Actually, it does, if you don't want to mess with a remailer...

Sometimes it is useful to be able to change identities. It does
not work just changing the ID in your browser. People will still
know it's just a sock puppet as the IP address is the same.

I'm really glad you believe that.

It's true... I learned the hard way when I attempted the sockpuppet
Zed1 on MFW. G Typical dumb mistake of a newbie to usenet... I got
tired of trolling and decided to attempt to become a contributing list
member again.

Didn't work.

If I want to hide the IP, I'll have to jack in an exbox next to my
modem.
That changes the IP address, and would probably cut back on spam as
well! I've been too cheap to buy one yet.


I found a new group for these people to post in.

Pretty funny, at least you have a sense of humor amidst all the anger
you've been spewing in this thread. The truth still is that you,
Catbox, have no posting history and some of these silly flame wars
usually end up with one of them creating new personas that agree with
their warped ideas. It's very amusing and predictable.

You are answering two different people here. I'm still trying to
understand what he meant by that. ;-)

Just changing the identity headers in your browser, (in my case,
netscape) will get you by most people that don't bother to take the
time to look. Once you get nailed tho' by someone that harvests the
headers, you learn...... :-P

Poor little Pun on the UK bodybuilding list learnt the same hard
lesson.
No, he was not me, but it was fun seeing him get busted. G

K.

Okay, I just don't know right now...
Please don't think I have not listened to the comments posted about
declawing cats.

The basic reason it was done in the first place was......

Fear.

Sheer terror that this cat would and could do permanent harm to the
baby. That scratch across his eye was just too damned close.

When the decision was made, I was going on the assumption that it was,
although certainly not pleasant or painless to the cat, at least
reasonably harmless. With Tabitha around, declawed on front paws, it
seemed a reasonable course of action. She has never had any problems and
she is about 11 years old now.

If I had it to do all over again now that I've been educated?

I don't know...... ;-( I'll keep you posted on how he does if you are interested.

If Shade (aka Booger) had not been given so many chances over the past 2
years of his life, if he had not been REPEATEDLY so aggressive towards
anything that disturbed him, and shown a marked jealousy of the baby,
the outcome might have been different. All I ask is not forgiveness, but
just an understanding of what WE felt we were dealing with, and the fact
that we really did not know how badly we were maiming this animal. I
have never, ever declawed a cat before.

Yes, we did try soft paws. He chewed them off within 2 weeks. Maybe we
got the wrong size, I don't know. All I can say is that we panicked. The
babies welfare came before anything else. I don't expect you to
understand that at all, not after what I've seen posted this week.

Now, change of subject:

Food. Canned food and amount. To date, I've judged the amount of canned
food my gang gets by how much they eat. I used to feed 4 cans and they
licked the pans clean and went looking for more. I increased it to 5
cans, and now they leave some. The large cans of Whiskas are 21.2 oz. x
5 cans is 106 oz. for 36 cats, comes out to 2.94 oz. per cat.

Someone else calculated it earlier and they were way off. ;-) I think
they were thinking of the smaller can size...

Is this enough? Should I offer canned food twice per day instead of only
once? I've already been told I should discontinue the free-fed kibbles.
I'm not sure how the cats would feel about that, considering how
strongly they let me know about it if I accidentally let the bowls run
out. ;-) I like to let the kibble crocks get as low as possible before
re-filling to avoid leaving stale food.

The cats seem healthy enough except for the ones over 12 years of age.
They tend to be a bit thin, and we have 2 obese cats. Maris was already
a chub tho' when she came here. Wizard just grew up that way. He was one
of our bottle raised orphans. The rest are fine. I'm hoping that the
excersize that will be provided by the new cat furniture will help some.

Thanks,
K.

--
^,,^ Cats-haven Hobby Farm ^,,^ ^,,^

Breast Implants are the Stupidest idea ever. If I wanted to fondle
$10,000.oo worth of Silicon, I'd buy a new computer! --Anon.

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

Okay, I just don't know right now...
Please don't think I have not listened to the comments posted about
declawing cats.

The basic reason it was done in the first place was......

Fear.

Sheer terror that this cat would and could do permanent harm to the
baby. That scratch across his eye was just too damned close.

When the decision was made, I was going on the assumption that it was,
although certainly not pleasant or painless to the cat, at least
reasonably harmless. With Tabitha around, declawed on front paws, it
seemed a reasonable course of action. She has never had any problems and
she is about 11 years old now.

If I had it to do all over again now that I've been educated?

I don't know...... ;-( I'll keep you posted on how he does if you are interested.

If Shade (aka Booger) had not been given so many chances over the past 2
years of his life, if he had not been REPEATEDLY so aggressive towards
anything that disturbed him, and shown a marked jealousy of the baby,
the outcome might have been different. All I ask is not forgiveness, but
just an understanding of what WE felt we were dealing with, and the fact
that we really did not know how badly we were maiming this animal. I
have never, ever declawed a cat before.

Yes, we did try soft paws. He chewed them off within 2 weeks. Maybe we
got the wrong size, I don't know. All I can say is that we panicked. The
babies welfare came before anything else. I don't expect you to
understand that at all, not after what I've seen posted this week.

Now, change of subject:

Food. Canned food and amount. To date, I've judged the amount of canned
food my gang gets by how much they eat. I used to feed 4 cans and they
licked the pans clean and went looking for more. I increased it to 5
cans, and now they leave some. The large cans of Whiskas are 21.2 oz. x
5 cans is 106 oz. for 36 cats, comes out to 2.94 oz. per cat.

Someone else calculated it earlier and they were way off. ;-) I think
they were thinking of the smaller can size...

Is this enough? Should I offer canned food twice per day instead of only
once? I've already been told I should discontinue the free-fed kibbles.
I'm not sure how the cats would feel about that, considering how
strongly they let me know about it if I accidentally let the bowls run
out. ;-) I like to let the kibble crocks get as low as possible before
re-filling to avoid leaving stale food.

The cats seem healthy enough except for the ones over 12 years of age.
They tend to be a bit thin, and we have 2 obese cats. Maris was already
a chub tho' when she came here. Wizard just grew up that way. He was one
of our bottle raised orphans. The rest are fine. I'm hoping that the
excersize that will be provided by the new cat furniture will help some.

Thanks,
K.

--
^,,^ Cats-haven Hobby Farm ^,,^ ^,,^

Breast Implants are the Stupidest idea ever. If I wanted to fondle
$10,000.oo worth of Silicon, I'd buy a new computer! --Anon.

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Then why is the number of declawed cats at the shelter "funny"?


If you have such comprehension problems, I give up.

It's funny how you cut out this part:

"Why, yes, I volunteer at a shelter. Funny how many declaws we have,
too."

So, why is that "funny"?


It's an expression, oh intelligent one.
It's called sarcasm. You're good at it, so you should recognize it. If
you can't, then you have more problems than I thought.

If you disagree with a point, do try to counter-point with
something relevant, eh?

I did. You might want to try paying closer attention.


You might try actually making one.

Forget it.

Do you always run! away! when you're losing an argument?


No, I "run away" when I realize I'm dealing with someone who is so
wrapped up in trying to be an idiot, there is no further point in trying
to have an intelligent debate. It's like having a battle of wits with an
unarmed opponent, and that's just wrong.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
enlightened us with...

Then why is the number of declawed cats at the shelter "funny"?


If you have such comprehension problems, I give up.

It's funny how you cut out this part:

"Why, yes, I volunteer at a shelter. Funny how many declaws we have,
too."

So, why is that "funny"?


It's an expression, oh intelligent one.
It's called sarcasm. You're good at it, so you should recognize it. If
you can't, then you have more problems than I thought.

If you disagree with a point, do try to counter-point with
something relevant, eh?

I did. You might want to try paying closer attention.


You might try actually making one.

Forget it.

Do you always run! away! when you're losing an argument?


No, I "run away" when I realize I'm dealing with someone who is so
wrapped up in trying to be an idiot, there is no further point in trying
to have an intelligent debate. It's like having a battle of wits with an
unarmed opponent, and that's just wrong.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
enlightened us with...

In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if
that's news to you.

And all bones are the same. Right.

You're just trying every tactic in the book to get out of your little
corner, aren't you?
Actually, most bones ARE the same, at least in the composition. The
arrangement with joints, size, thickness and such may be different, but
that has nothing to do with the fact that declawing is the amputation of
the last joint on the toe, period. No amount of twisting things around
will change that.



Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.

You mean they don't scratch?

No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats
scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

What's that got to do with why dogs aren't routinely declawed?


Cats inconvenience owners more.
You have yet to bother to answer that yourself, though, so I'd say
you're just pulling things out of your nether regions again. You claimed
to know the "real" reason, yet have posted nothing.

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture
when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch
people just by jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If
vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed
dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?

You have yet to answer this.
Making stuff up again?

Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do
damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

They're not built the same. Do I need to give you an anatomy lesson
now, too?


Thanks, I'd rather learn from someone who actually knows and understands
facts. If they could read properly it would be a plus.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
enlightened us with...

In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if
that's news to you.

And all bones are the same. Right.

You're just trying every tactic in the book to get out of your little
corner, aren't you?
Actually, most bones ARE the same, at least in the composition. The
arrangement with joints, size, thickness and such may be different, but
that has nothing to do with the fact that declawing is the amputation of
the last joint on the toe, period. No amount of twisting things around
will change that.



Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.

You mean they don't scratch?

No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats
scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

What's that got to do with why dogs aren't routinely declawed?


Cats inconvenience owners more.
You have yet to bother to answer that yourself, though, so I'd say
you're just pulling things out of your nether regions again. You claimed
to know the "real" reason, yet have posted nothing.

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture
when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch
people just by jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If
vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed
dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?

You have yet to answer this.
Making stuff up again?

Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do
damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

They're not built the same. Do I need to give you an anatomy lesson
now, too?


Thanks, I'd rather learn from someone who actually knows and understands
facts. If they could read properly it would be a plus.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli wrote:

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.

Exactly....the only reason cats are declawed in spite of training being the
answer is that some people are too lazy to train their cats, or just don't
know how.

kaeli wrote:

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.

Exactly....the only reason cats are declawed in spite of training being the
answer is that some people are too lazy to train their cats, or just don't
know how.

Relish wrote:

If I had it to do all over again now that I've been educated?

I don't know...... ;-( I'll keep you posted on how he does if you
are interested.

Now that's not understandable. You just said you didn't know the
facts about declawing when you declawed. Now you do. What you did in
ignorance is much more forgiveable if you don't repeat the action in
the future (or in retrospect, the past).

I know what you mean, but I think what she meant is, she doesn't know how
she would have handled it, knowing what she knows, but still feeling
concerned for the baby, and not knowing how else to deal with the cat's
behavior. I mean, I completely agree with you, I don't think declawing is
the answer, and wouldn't expect someone to engage in it once they are in
possession of the facts, but it sounds like she feels lost as to what
options should have been used instead.

By the way, Katra, I found some really good articles about cats, including
one about aggression towards people, at http://www.catsinternational.org/
(and I know there are others out there). Hopefully, this will help, not
only with Shade - who may very well continue to act out, even without his
claws - but also if you come across this problem again in future, either
with a cat of yours, or with someone you know.

All the Best,
Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak