Louis **** remediation, Day 1:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

Well I love Richmond. I go there quite often, as I have relatives
there. It is a special place.

You must know a different side of Richmond than I do. I spent some
time there because I had a lot of student friends living in the Fan
... ugh, what a miserable place.

--

To each her own. I really dislike much of the west, at least
for a place to live. As far as Colorado, Boulder was the only town I would
miss if they lifted the whole rock pile off of the planet. :O) Viva le
difference!

"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
oups.com...

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

Well I love Richmond. I go there quite often, as I have relatives
there. It is a special place.

You must know a different side of Richmond than I do. I spent some
time there because I had a lot of student friends living in the Fan
... ugh, what a miserable place.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Every city has a dirty element, but Richmond is big on art of all
kinds, this draws some pretty interesting people. Richmond also has one
of the best medical colleges in the country, this draws lots of money,
Richmond is saturated with old money.


It's an acquired taste, Barry. I like the dirt. I love the old shoe feel of
some
of the old east-coast cities. I dislike shiny yuppified suburbs. (So what am
I
doing in Raleigh, you ask? Hahaha. I can't tell you.) I also hate modern
looking cities, but will put up with them if the people are neat. Or if
there
are people from all over the world.

To like Richmond, like any other place, you have to understand it. Now,
Baltimore I actually do not like. It's sort of the same but there, unlike
Richmond, there is a very strong anti-intellectual quality. A glorification
of ignorance, if you will. And, though it is old, I really cannot stand
Charleston, because for all its beauty it is essentially brain dead.
When they have the Spoleto festival every year, the more interesting
avant garde music or art gets these hilarious reviews--hilarious because
the reviewer is so completely ignorant, yet often a local professor. I
do love Charleston food--and Baltimore seafood!

In the end, I celebrate the diversity of all our very different cities,
worldwide. I hope it all never blends into the suburbs.

On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:46:37 -0400, "Mary" wrote:

Now,
Baltimore I actually do not like. It's sort of the same but there, unlike
Richmond, there is a very strong anti-intellectual quality. A glorification
of ignorance, if you will.

I think you're very, very wrong. Maybe it's all those world-class
doctors at Hopkins that strike you that way?



--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

"Janet B" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:46:37 -0400, "Mary" wrote:

Now,
Baltimore I actually do not like. It's sort of the same but there, unlike
Richmond, there is a very strong anti-intellectual quality. A
glorification
of ignorance, if you will.

I think you're very, very wrong. Maybe it's all those world-class
doctors at Hopkins that strike you that way?


Janet. I'm talking about the Baltimore outside the universities.
Highlandtown comes to mind. There is a huge
blue collar presence, which is fine. I am not a snob. However, it comes with
an ingrained sneering at what the
ignorant often call "book learning" and a glorification of
underachievement. In my experience growing up in DC for part of my life and
visiting there a lot. You are allowed to disagree. In my experience, Hopkins
and UMBC are two oases in a vast, scarred wilderness of glorified ignorance
and racism. I found it to be the most racist (white to black and black to
white and etc., between all the elements of society) place I have ever been.
Everyone in little ethnic or religious or racial pockets squared off against
one another. Of course if you live in Stoneleigh or the other old money
areas, or out in the suburbs you may not see it as much. I am talking about
the City of Baltimore, not the Greater Baltimore Area.

And for the record, I have met many more black people I liked than white
people I liked there. And, I hated DC too, but for different reasons.

Different strokes. (I do not mean to define the city--just to give my
impression of it. And of course there is a range of different kinds of
people there.)

On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:10:30 -0400, "Mary" wrote:

I found it to be the most racist (white to black and black to
white and etc., between all the elements of society) place I have ever been.
Everyone in little ethnic or religious or racial pockets squared off against
one another. Of course if you live in Stoneleigh or the other old money
areas, or out in the suburbs you may not see it as much. I am talking about
the City of Baltimore, not the Greater Baltimore Area.

I think that the "pockets" are disappearing more and more (and I don't
know when you were here last, but the gentrification of various
neighborhoods and the prices the houses are bringing is getting
bizarre!). My husband's family was from "pigtown" for instance, which
was heavily Lithuanian, and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone there
anymore. I don't disagree with you that there was, and is, racial
and ethnic unrest (did you ever see Barry Levinson's movie "Liberty
Heights"?).

I had been visiting B'more regularly since 1967, before moving here in
1979. A lot of change has happened since then. I was a city-dweller
(no, not Roland Park or Guilford) until 1994, when commuting time
forced us to move to the 'burbs (well, DH's commute time - mine USED
to be 3 minutes!). If it weren't for that (and somewhat space for the
dogs, but that's not primary), I'd move back into B'more City in a
heartbeat.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

"Janet B" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:10:30 -0400, "Mary" wrote:

I found it to be the most racist (white to black and black to
white and etc., between all the elements of society) place I have ever
been.
Everyone in little ethnic or religious or racial pockets squared off
against
one another. Of course if you live in Stoneleigh or the other old money
areas, or out in the suburbs you may not see it as much. I am talking
about
the City of Baltimore, not the Greater Baltimore Area.

I think that the "pockets" are disappearing more and more (and I don't
know when you were here last, but the gentrification of various
neighborhoods and the prices the houses are bringing is getting
bizarre!).

You are correct--I have not been there for a number of years. I do have
friends in Federal Hill and Fells Point, though, so I do know about the
housing prices in the gentrified areas. I love to see the old places
fixed up--but it is a shame when the RE prices go sky high!

My husband's family was from "pigtown" for instance, which
was heavily Lithuanian, and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone there
anymore. I don't disagree with you that there was, and is, racial
and ethnic unrest. (did you ever see Barry Levinson's movie "Liberty
Heights"?).

No, but I have been to Liberty Heights! Do I need to see the movie?


I had been visiting B'more regularly since 1967, before moving here in
1979. A lot of change has happened since then. I was a city-dweller
(no, not Roland Park or Guilford)

Roland Park is where I was trying to think of. I had a college friend from
there and could not believe how rich her family was. With Govans right
next door, gunshots ringing out in the night. It was wild.


until 1994, when commuting time
forced us to move to the 'burbs (well, DH's commute time - mine USED
to be 3 minutes!). If it weren't for that (and somewhat space for the
dogs, but that's not primary), I'd move back into B'more City in a
heartbeat.


There are so many things to love about old cities. I find them so
evocative, you can just feel the old stories floating around you.
I just had unhappy experiences as a 20-something in Baltimore--
it is the people that made me unhappy.

You know what it might be? On the whole, nerds have an easier time of it
in other kinds of cities, especially in college towns like Raleigh. More
eggheads here to commiserate with? Anyway--I did not mean to trash
the whole city. Maybe I am like a jilted lover!

On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:29:47 -0400, "Mary" wrote:


No, but I have been to Liberty Heights! Do I need to see the movie?

Oh yeahhhhh - it's a very good movie. I like most of his movies,
especially the "Baltimore" ones. They filmed the opening scene of
"Tinmen" in back of my house (an old Cadillac dealership that had been
vacant and is now gone).

With Govans right
next door, gunshots ringing out in the night. It was wild.

Govans is next to Guilford, and it is indeed where opposites collide.
It gets better, then worse, then better. A lot of change once
Memorial Stadium was torn down. New housing and a new YMCA. Still,
stark line of have's and have-not's.

There are so many things to love about old cities. I find them so
evocative, you can just feel the old stories floating around you.
I just had unhappy experiences as a 20-something in Baltimore--
it is the people that made me unhappy.

I understand. I know that I HATED it when I first moved in 1979 (from
'burbs of Northern NJ). I love cities, love NYC, and Baltimore seemed
so damn primitive in so many ways. I think things changed a lot, not
only with progress for the city, but when I bought a house (rowhouse)
and I loved my neighbors/neighborhood. As much as I enjoy some
privacy and space, I liked a part of having to park on the street
(instead of pushing a garage door opener) and saying hello to the
neighbors when we were leaving for and coming home from work. Then
there was the wonderful camaraderie that got built due to living on a
tiny one-way street, and having to shovel 2' of snow from the street
by ourselves, or be stranded! ;-D

You know what it might be? On the whole, nerds have an easier time of it
in other kinds of cities, especially in college towns like Raleigh. More
eggheads here to commiserate with? Anyway--I did not mean to trash
the whole city. Maybe I am like a jilted lover!

LOL! More likely, you experienced B'more at a different point in your
and B'more's life. Come back sometime - of course summer and crabtime
is best (who wants to deal with people who abandon cars in snow,
afterall?)!



--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

Well I love Richmond. I go there quite often, as I have relatives
there. It is a special place.

You must know a different side of Richmond than I do. I spent some
time there because I had a lot of student friends living in the Fan
... ugh, what a miserable place.

To each her own. I really dislike much of the west, at least for a
place to live. As far as Colorado, Boulder was the only town I would
miss if they lifted the whole rock pile off of the planet. :O) Viva
le difference!

I rather like Boulder =) Can't afford to live there, though, so we
have a house in Longmont, which I call (not exactly affectionately)
"Cowtown."

My experience with Richmond was certainly tainted by certain people
and situations to which I was exposed.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message
...
On 2005-05-19, Mary penned:

Well I love Richmond. I go there quite often, as I have relatives
there. It is a special place.

You must know a different side of Richmond than I do. I spent some
time there because I had a lot of student friends living in the Fan
... ugh, what a miserable place.

To each her own. I really dislike much of the west, at least for a
place to live. As far as Colorado, Boulder was the only town I would
miss if they lifted the whole rock pile off of the planet. :O) Viva
le difference!

I rather like Boulder =) Can't afford to live there, though, so we
have a house in Longmont, which I call (not exactly affectionately)
"Cowtown."

My experience with Richmond was certainly tainted by certain people
and situations to which I was exposed.


Yep, same with Baltimore for me. It is also true that there are icky
people everywhere, and if that is all you met in a place, then that
is all you know. People aside, though I love the dramatic space
of the western states, I am most comfortable in the lush and green
midatlantic/southeastern states.

"Mary" wrote
Janet. I'm talking about the Baltimore outside the universities.
Highlandtown comes to mind. There is a huge
blue collar presence, which is fine. I am not a snob. However, it comes
with
an ingrained sneering at what the
ignorant often call "book learning" and a glorification of
underachievement.

OMG, you cannot base Baltimore on Highlandtown! For those who don't know
Highlandtown, rent the John Waters movie "Hairspray". Hasn't changed that
much since then.
I used to work at a physical therapy office in Essex, so we served that side
of the population. Even though I lived in the city at the time (Fells
Point), it was a bit of a culture shock. I was all fancy because I had been
to college and used big words and my husband had a job and wasn't trying to
claim disability. Many of the people I met had no desire to make something
better of themselves, go anywhere else, see other things, etc. I invited a
co-worker to my house, but she wouldn't "drive in the city". I lived 10
minutes away!

Race relations were tense when I was a kid in school, it was a hard time for
me. Don't want to get into it, but I hope things have improved.

Baltimore has really grown and changed. I don't think it's the same
backwards town you remember. I lived in Fells Point, which was a great
arty/music scene. Mt. Vernon and Charles Village are also hopping. Federal
Hill is nice, but it's a little quieter.

I really can't wait to move back.
--
-Kelly