If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#81
|
|||
|
|||
Forget the torah. Spaying and neutering your animals is the correct action.
I would love to see you go down to a shelter and tell them what they are doing is wrong. It is people like you that are making the rescue of our feline friends difficult by making an excuse not to do the responsible thing. I suppose you are also going to say the torah says we should not punish those who simply dump their feline friends in the street to fend for themselves? BTW, spaying/neutering is the right thing to do. You can use all the scipts, sayings or anything from the torah that you want but that doesn't mean they are correct. I suggest you get with the times. This is 2004 after all. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" wrote in message news:jL24c.33678 Please read: MEANING IN MITZVOT by Rabbi Asher Meir Each week we discuss one familiar halakhic practice and try to show its beauty and meaning. The columns are based on Rabbi Meir's Meaning in Mitzvot on Kitzur Shulchan Arukh. Spaying animals The spaying of animals, in order to prevent undesired reproduction or in order to make them more docile, is an ancient custom of animal husbandry, but it is one which is forbidden by the Torah. The Torah teaches this prohibition in two different places, each one with its message. In the blessing given to Noach and his family after the flood, "Be fruitful and multiply, swarm in the earth and multiply in it" (Bere**** 9:7), our Sages discerned an implication that spaying of animals is improper for all mankind (Sanhedrin 57a). The basis of this admonition is clearly the fact that spaying interferes with HaShem's desire that the world should be filled with a multiplicity of living things. Here the consideration is a quantitative one. However, the Torah also contains a prohibition on spaying for the Jewish people. In enumeration the animals which are blemished and unfit for sacrifices, the Torah tells us (Vayikra 22:24) "And an animal which is maimed or crushed or disconnected or severed [in his reproductive organs] do not offer to HaShem", and then adds "and don't do this in your land", meaning that we should not create such a blemish (Shabbat 110b). Here the emphasis is not on the consequences for the world, but rather the consequences for this particular animal. The blemish in a sacrifice is not due to the fact that the animal will not reproduce, because the animal is being slaughtered anyway. Rather, the admonition not to spay seems to be directed at the loss for the individual. Each individual creature is unique, and its ability to transmit its own unique characteristics to offspring is an essential part of its character and potential. Even if the world will swarm with sheep just as before, this individual ram is deficient if he lacks the potential to perpetuate his special traits in the next generation. This distinction between the general mission of mankind and the particular mission of the Jewish people is found in other places as well. For instance, in our column on Vayikra 5761 we saw the explanation of Rav Nachman of Breslav, that for all mankind ownership and possession has utilitarian value, but for the Jewish people ownership also ideally involves a special sensitivity to the unique role of each object in the chain of Divine providence. All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental, focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish people who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- Rabbi Meir has completed writing a monumental companion to Kitzur Shulchan Aruch which beautifully presents the meanings in our mitzvot and halacha. It will hopefully be published in the near future. Rabbi Meir authors a popular weekly on-line Q&A column, "The Jewish Ethicist", which gives Jewish guidance on everyday ethical dilemmas in the workplace. The column is a joint project of the JCT Center for Business Ethics, Jerusalem College of Technology - Machon Lev; and Aish HaTorah. You can see the Jewish Ethicist, and submit your own questions, at www.jewishethicist.com or at www.aish.com. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 |
#82
|
|||
|
|||
Forget the torah. Spaying and neutering your animals is the correct action.
I would love to see you go down to a shelter and tell them what they are doing is wrong. It is people like you that are making the rescue of our feline friends difficult by making an excuse not to do the responsible thing. I suppose you are also going to say the torah says we should not punish those who simply dump their feline friends in the street to fend for themselves? BTW, spaying/neutering is the right thing to do. You can use all the scipts, sayings or anything from the torah that you want but that doesn't mean they are correct. I suggest you get with the times. This is 2004 after all. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" wrote in message news:jL24c.33678 Please read: MEANING IN MITZVOT by Rabbi Asher Meir Each week we discuss one familiar halakhic practice and try to show its beauty and meaning. The columns are based on Rabbi Meir's Meaning in Mitzvot on Kitzur Shulchan Arukh. Spaying animals The spaying of animals, in order to prevent undesired reproduction or in order to make them more docile, is an ancient custom of animal husbandry, but it is one which is forbidden by the Torah. The Torah teaches this prohibition in two different places, each one with its message. In the blessing given to Noach and his family after the flood, "Be fruitful and multiply, swarm in the earth and multiply in it" (Bere**** 9:7), our Sages discerned an implication that spaying of animals is improper for all mankind (Sanhedrin 57a). The basis of this admonition is clearly the fact that spaying interferes with HaShem's desire that the world should be filled with a multiplicity of living things. Here the consideration is a quantitative one. However, the Torah also contains a prohibition on spaying for the Jewish people. In enumeration the animals which are blemished and unfit for sacrifices, the Torah tells us (Vayikra 22:24) "And an animal which is maimed or crushed or disconnected or severed [in his reproductive organs] do not offer to HaShem", and then adds "and don't do this in your land", meaning that we should not create such a blemish (Shabbat 110b). Here the emphasis is not on the consequences for the world, but rather the consequences for this particular animal. The blemish in a sacrifice is not due to the fact that the animal will not reproduce, because the animal is being slaughtered anyway. Rather, the admonition not to spay seems to be directed at the loss for the individual. Each individual creature is unique, and its ability to transmit its own unique characteristics to offspring is an essential part of its character and potential. Even if the world will swarm with sheep just as before, this individual ram is deficient if he lacks the potential to perpetuate his special traits in the next generation. This distinction between the general mission of mankind and the particular mission of the Jewish people is found in other places as well. For instance, in our column on Vayikra 5761 we saw the explanation of Rav Nachman of Breslav, that for all mankind ownership and possession has utilitarian value, but for the Jewish people ownership also ideally involves a special sensitivity to the unique role of each object in the chain of Divine providence. All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental, focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish people who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---- Rabbi Meir has completed writing a monumental companion to Kitzur Shulchan Aruch which beautifully presents the meanings in our mitzvot and halacha. It will hopefully be published in the near future. Rabbi Meir authors a popular weekly on-line Q&A column, "The Jewish Ethicist", which gives Jewish guidance on everyday ethical dilemmas in the workplace. The column is a joint project of the JCT Center for Business Ethics, Jerusalem College of Technology - Machon Lev; and Aish HaTorah. You can see the Jewish Ethicist, and submit your own questions, at www.jewishethicist.com or at www.aish.com. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 |
#83
|
|||
|
|||
I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats
have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person will probably say Jews are not allowed to be metaphysical and that is a sin to believe cats have souls. Good thing I was born Reform because many of us don't follow the rules of Jewish law. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "kilikini" wrote in message ... I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get *better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them? I don't understand. kilikini |
#84
|
|||
|
|||
I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats
have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person will probably say Jews are not allowed to be metaphysical and that is a sin to believe cats have souls. Good thing I was born Reform because many of us don't follow the rules of Jewish law. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "kilikini" wrote in message ... I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get *better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them? I don't understand. kilikini |
#85
|
|||
|
|||
Plenty of men try to do this. I know I make myself scarce during this cycle
so I do not incur the wrath of the woman. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? |
#86
|
|||
|
|||
Plenty of men try to do this. I know I make myself scarce during this cycle
so I do not incur the wrath of the woman. -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? |
#87
|
|||
|
|||
And this has to do with cats how?
-- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" wrote in message link.net... Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned. YS "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... Norma wrote: "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... ys wrote: We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator in all facets if life. Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? How does this relate to cats exactly? Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma In more detail than is warranted for a Thursday afternoon: 1. The astute reader will note that the thread subject line includes both women AND cats and indeed how the thread discussions have touched on the nature of both creatures. 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she understands it - as it relates not just to cats and animals in general but all of life. Toraic Law dictates that women are to be avoided, indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the author's of the aforementioned Law. 3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to daily human activities, which include both women AND cats in this context. As is often the case with such things, the "faithful" (be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.) are highly selective about which parts of the Law they choose to abide by or hold sacred. 4. Finally, the astute reader would have put elements 1, 2 and 3 together BEFORE assuming a trolling stance on my part. Such an assumption is, in fact, erroneous. Good day. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 |
#88
|
|||
|
|||
And this has to do with cats how?
-- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" wrote in message link.net... Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned. YS "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... Norma wrote: "West Wing Audio" wrote in message ... ys wrote: We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator in all facets if life. Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? How does this relate to cats exactly? Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma In more detail than is warranted for a Thursday afternoon: 1. The astute reader will note that the thread subject line includes both women AND cats and indeed how the thread discussions have touched on the nature of both creatures. 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she understands it - as it relates not just to cats and animals in general but all of life. Toraic Law dictates that women are to be avoided, indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the author's of the aforementioned Law. 3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to daily human activities, which include both women AND cats in this context. As is often the case with such things, the "faithful" (be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.) are highly selective about which parts of the Law they choose to abide by or hold sacred. 4. Finally, the astute reader would have put elements 1, 2 and 3 together BEFORE assuming a trolling stance on my part. Such an assumption is, in fact, erroneous. Good day. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 |
#89
|
|||
|
|||
Most Jews I am sure spay and neuter their animals. I bet the OP probably
feels a lot of us who do the responsible thing will also not get a ticket into heaven. I am also willing to bet that he/she would not be quoting the torah if their own life was at risk and they needed an operation. Yes, that's right you may need to cut your flesh to save your own life. I suppose you'd let yourself or someone else die in order to stick to the belief of no cutting the flesh? -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "kilikini" wrote in message ... So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief correctly? kilikini |
#90
|
|||
|
|||
Most Jews I am sure spay and neuter their animals. I bet the OP probably
feels a lot of us who do the responsible thing will also not get a ticket into heaven. I am also willing to bet that he/she would not be quoting the torah if their own life was at risk and they needed an operation. Yes, that's right you may need to cut your flesh to save your own life. I suppose you'd let yourself or someone else die in order to stick to the belief of no cutting the flesh? -- Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "kilikini" wrote in message ... So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief correctly? kilikini |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Dorrie (And Old Cats) | Cowa Bungie | Cat health & behaviour | 26 | September 26th 04 07:17 AM |
Forget About Traffic Accidents! Cats Make Women Promiscuous! | meehawl | Cat health & behaviour | 6 | September 26th 03 01:15 AM |