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  #81  
Old March 12th 04, 04:32 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Forget the torah. Spaying and neutering your animals is the correct action.
I would love to see you go down to a shelter and tell them what they are
doing is wrong. It is people like you that are making the rescue of our
feline friends difficult by making an excuse not to do the responsible
thing. I suppose you are also going to say the torah says we should not
punish those who simply dump their feline friends in the street to fend for
themselves? BTW, spaying/neutering is the right thing to do. You can use all
the scipts, sayings or anything from the torah that you want but that
doesn't mean they are correct. I suggest you get with the times. This is
2004 after all.


--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"ys" wrote in message news:jL24c.33678
Please read:

MEANING IN MITZVOT by Rabbi Asher Meir

Each week we discuss one familiar halakhic practice and try to show its
beauty and meaning. The columns are based on Rabbi Meir's Meaning in

Mitzvot
on Kitzur Shulchan Arukh.

Spaying animals

The spaying of animals, in order to prevent undesired reproduction or in
order to make them more docile, is an ancient custom of animal husbandry,
but it is one which is forbidden by the Torah. The Torah teaches this
prohibition in two different places, each one with its message.
In the blessing given to Noach and his family after the flood, "Be

fruitful
and multiply, swarm in the earth and multiply in it" (Bere**** 9:7), our
Sages discerned an implication that spaying of animals is improper for all
mankind (Sanhedrin 57a). The basis of this admonition is clearly the fact
that spaying interferes with HaShem's desire that the world should be

filled
with a multiplicity of living things. Here the consideration is a
quantitative one.
However, the Torah also contains a prohibition on spaying for the Jewish
people. In enumeration the animals which are blemished and unfit for
sacrifices, the Torah tells us (Vayikra 22:24) "And an animal which is
maimed or crushed or disconnected or severed [in his reproductive organs]

do
not offer to HaShem", and then adds "and don't do this in your land",
meaning that we should not create such a blemish (Shabbat 110b).
Here the emphasis is not on the consequences for the world, but rather the
consequences for this particular animal. The blemish in a sacrifice is not
due to the fact that the animal will not reproduce, because the animal is
being slaughtered anyway. Rather, the admonition not to spay seems to be
directed at the loss for the individual. Each individual creature is

unique,
and its ability to transmit its own unique characteristics to offspring is
an essential part of its character and potential. Even if the world will
swarm with sheep just as before, this individual ram is deficient if he
lacks the potential to perpetuate his special traits in the next

generation.
This distinction between the general mission of mankind and the particular
mission of the Jewish people is found in other places as well. For

instance,
in our column on Vayikra 5761 we saw the explanation of Rav Nachman of
Breslav, that for all mankind ownership and possession has utilitarian
value, but for the Jewish people ownership also ideally involves a special
sensitivity to the unique role of each object in the chain of Divine
providence.
All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and
spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental,
focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish

people
who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each
individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from
the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
----

Rabbi Meir has completed writing a monumental companion to Kitzur Shulchan
Aruch which beautifully presents the meanings in our mitzvot and halacha.

It
will hopefully be published in the near future.

Rabbi Meir authors a popular weekly on-line Q&A column, "The Jewish
Ethicist", which gives Jewish guidance on everyday ethical dilemmas in the
workplace. The column is a joint project of the JCT Center for Business
Ethics, Jerusalem College of Technology - Machon Lev; and Aish HaTorah.

You
can see the Jewish Ethicist, and submit your own questions, at
www.jewishethicist.com or at www.aish.com.







---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04




  #82  
Old March 12th 04, 04:32 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Forget the torah. Spaying and neutering your animals is the correct action.
I would love to see you go down to a shelter and tell them what they are
doing is wrong. It is people like you that are making the rescue of our
feline friends difficult by making an excuse not to do the responsible
thing. I suppose you are also going to say the torah says we should not
punish those who simply dump their feline friends in the street to fend for
themselves? BTW, spaying/neutering is the right thing to do. You can use all
the scipts, sayings or anything from the torah that you want but that
doesn't mean they are correct. I suggest you get with the times. This is
2004 after all.


--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"ys" wrote in message news:jL24c.33678
Please read:

MEANING IN MITZVOT by Rabbi Asher Meir

Each week we discuss one familiar halakhic practice and try to show its
beauty and meaning. The columns are based on Rabbi Meir's Meaning in

Mitzvot
on Kitzur Shulchan Arukh.

Spaying animals

The spaying of animals, in order to prevent undesired reproduction or in
order to make them more docile, is an ancient custom of animal husbandry,
but it is one which is forbidden by the Torah. The Torah teaches this
prohibition in two different places, each one with its message.
In the blessing given to Noach and his family after the flood, "Be

fruitful
and multiply, swarm in the earth and multiply in it" (Bere**** 9:7), our
Sages discerned an implication that spaying of animals is improper for all
mankind (Sanhedrin 57a). The basis of this admonition is clearly the fact
that spaying interferes with HaShem's desire that the world should be

filled
with a multiplicity of living things. Here the consideration is a
quantitative one.
However, the Torah also contains a prohibition on spaying for the Jewish
people. In enumeration the animals which are blemished and unfit for
sacrifices, the Torah tells us (Vayikra 22:24) "And an animal which is
maimed or crushed or disconnected or severed [in his reproductive organs]

do
not offer to HaShem", and then adds "and don't do this in your land",
meaning that we should not create such a blemish (Shabbat 110b).
Here the emphasis is not on the consequences for the world, but rather the
consequences for this particular animal. The blemish in a sacrifice is not
due to the fact that the animal will not reproduce, because the animal is
being slaughtered anyway. Rather, the admonition not to spay seems to be
directed at the loss for the individual. Each individual creature is

unique,
and its ability to transmit its own unique characteristics to offspring is
an essential part of its character and potential. Even if the world will
swarm with sheep just as before, this individual ram is deficient if he
lacks the potential to perpetuate his special traits in the next

generation.
This distinction between the general mission of mankind and the particular
mission of the Jewish people is found in other places as well. For

instance,
in our column on Vayikra 5761 we saw the explanation of Rav Nachman of
Breslav, that for all mankind ownership and possession has utilitarian
value, but for the Jewish people ownership also ideally involves a special
sensitivity to the unique role of each object in the chain of Divine
providence.
All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and
spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental,
focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish

people
who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each
individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from
the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
----

Rabbi Meir has completed writing a monumental companion to Kitzur Shulchan
Aruch which beautifully presents the meanings in our mitzvot and halacha.

It
will hopefully be published in the near future.

Rabbi Meir authors a popular weekly on-line Q&A column, "The Jewish
Ethicist", which gives Jewish guidance on everyday ethical dilemmas in the
workplace. The column is a joint project of the JCT Center for Business
Ethics, Jerusalem College of Technology - Machon Lev; and Aish HaTorah.

You
can see the Jewish Ethicist, and submit your own questions, at
www.jewishethicist.com or at www.aish.com.







---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04




  #83  
Old March 12th 04, 04:46 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats
have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person
will probably say Jews are not allowed to be metaphysical and that is a sin
to believe cats have souls. Good thing I was born Reform because many of us
don't follow the rules of Jewish law.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kilikini" wrote in message
...
I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get
*better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them?

I
don't understand.
kilikini






  #84  
Old March 12th 04, 04:46 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats
have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person
will probably say Jews are not allowed to be metaphysical and that is a sin
to believe cats have souls. Good thing I was born Reform because many of us
don't follow the rules of Jewish law.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kilikini" wrote in message
...
I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get
*better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them?

I
don't understand.
kilikini






  #85  
Old March 12th 04, 04:48 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Plenty of men try to do this. I know I make myself scarce during this cycle
so I do not incur the wrath of the woman.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...

Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are
deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too?



  #86  
Old March 12th 04, 04:48 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Plenty of men try to do this. I know I make myself scarce during this cycle
so I do not incur the wrath of the woman.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...

Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are
deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too?



  #87  
Old March 12th 04, 04:49 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And this has to do with cats how?

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"ys" wrote in message
link.net...
Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned.



YS



"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...
Norma wrote:

"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...
ys wrote:

We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of

the
Creator
in all facets if life.

Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they

are
deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too?

How does this relate to cats exactly?

Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma



In more detail than is warranted for a Thursday afternoon:

1. The astute reader will note that the thread subject line includes
both women AND cats and indeed how the thread discussions have touched
on the nature of both creatures.

2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that
he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she
understands it - as it relates not just to cats and animals in general
but all of life. Toraic Law dictates that women are to be avoided,
indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the
author's of the aforementioned Law.

3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed
consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to
daily human activities, which include both women AND cats in this
context. As is often the case with such things, the "faithful" (be they
Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.) are highly selective about which parts of
the Law they choose to abide by or hold sacred.

4. Finally, the astute reader would have put elements 1, 2 and 3
together BEFORE assuming a trolling stance on my part. Such an
assumption is, in fact, erroneous.

Good day.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04




  #88  
Old March 12th 04, 04:49 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And this has to do with cats how?

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"ys" wrote in message
link.net...
Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned.



YS



"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...
Norma wrote:

"West Wing Audio" wrote in message
...
ys wrote:

We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of

the
Creator
in all facets if life.

Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they

are
deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too?

How does this relate to cats exactly?

Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma



In more detail than is warranted for a Thursday afternoon:

1. The astute reader will note that the thread subject line includes
both women AND cats and indeed how the thread discussions have touched
on the nature of both creatures.

2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that
he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she
understands it - as it relates not just to cats and animals in general
but all of life. Toraic Law dictates that women are to be avoided,
indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the
author's of the aforementioned Law.

3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed
consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to
daily human activities, which include both women AND cats in this
context. As is often the case with such things, the "faithful" (be they
Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.) are highly selective about which parts of
the Law they choose to abide by or hold sacred.

4. Finally, the astute reader would have put elements 1, 2 and 3
together BEFORE assuming a trolling stance on my part. Such an
assumption is, in fact, erroneous.

Good day.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04




  #89  
Old March 12th 04, 04:57 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Most Jews I am sure spay and neuter their animals. I bet the OP probably
feels a lot of us who do the responsible thing will also not get a ticket
into heaven. I am also willing to bet that he/she would not be quoting the
torah if their own life was at risk and they needed an operation. Yes,
that's right you may need to cut your flesh to save your own life. I suppose
you'd let yourself or someone else die in order to stick to the belief of no
cutting the flesh?

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kilikini" wrote in message
...

So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be

rejected
by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief
correctly?
kilikini




  #90  
Old March 12th 04, 04:57 AM
Cat Protector
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Most Jews I am sure spay and neuter their animals. I bet the OP probably
feels a lot of us who do the responsible thing will also not get a ticket
into heaven. I am also willing to bet that he/she would not be quoting the
torah if their own life was at risk and they needed an operation. Yes,
that's right you may need to cut your flesh to save your own life. I suppose
you'd let yourself or someone else die in order to stick to the belief of no
cutting the flesh?

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"kilikini" wrote in message
...

So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be

rejected
by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief
correctly?
kilikini




 




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