If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
Well thanks for all the comments. I know hunting is an instinct in cats.
But really, that doesn't make me feel any better about it when I have to pick up the broken body of a terrified, mortally wounded bird! There are a lot of instincts which we civilized types would like to discourage in our kitty companions! The two suggestions that I found most interesting we -to stick a bell on Zack's neck to warn the birds of his stealthy approach (This is a practical suggestion I will seriously consider.) -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? And that by my expressing displeasure, I will only encourage more of the offensive behavior? I would think that by praising the animal, that's what would encourage more of the killing behavior! But I'm open to being educated about this, from valid scientific sources. The question I'm really asking is this: Is there any way in the world to teach a cat the concept of compassion? That'd be a nice trick, eh? Like maybe a cat who's been traumatized by a larger predatory animal like a dog or a cayote might be able to develop some sense of identification with the smaller victims they terrorize? No, I'm not suggesting throwing the cat to a pack of cayotes! But I'm wondering, can cats be taught compassion, and if so, how? -Garret "Garret Swayne" wrote in message ink.net... My cat Zacky is an indoor/outdoor cat, and he's forever bringing home prey that he catches. Every week or so, I'll come home and find a bloody lifeless bird in my living room (and the room full of feathers!) Or a lizard. Or a mouse. Or these really weird worms that are not snails or slugs, but look like snails without their shell. He also brings in these really huge grasshoppers and then torture them to death, leaving large insect carcasses throughout the house. It's like living with a feline serial murderer! Occasionally, I'll catch him as he's bringing in his captive still alive and as yet unharmed. So I'll give him a stern NO, take it from his mouth, and carry it outside to release it. This kind of ****es him off, but I'm not sure what else to do. I really want to discourage such behavior. Any ideas? -Garret garret at garretswayne dot com |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
I have some stray cats in the neighborhood who hang out in my yard, and when
the birds come around to eat their food, they just look at them like "eh...you again..ok". My cats indoors, start "chirping" at them. Not sure if they'd know what to do with them if they were allowed out. -- A hug a day keeps the blues away "Garret Swayne" wrote in message nk.net... Well thanks for all the comments. I know hunting is an instinct in cats. But really, that doesn't make me feel any better about it when I have to pick up the broken body of a terrified, mortally wounded bird! There are a lot of instincts which we civilized types would like to discourage in our kitty companions! The two suggestions that I found most interesting we -to stick a bell on Zack's neck to warn the birds of his stealthy approach (This is a practical suggestion I will seriously consider.) -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? And that by my expressing displeasure, I will only encourage more of the offensive behavior? I would think that by praising the animal, that's what would encourage more of the killing behavior! But I'm open to being educated about this, from valid scientific sources. The question I'm really asking is this: Is there any way in the world to teach a cat the concept of compassion? That'd be a nice trick, eh? Like maybe a cat who's been traumatized by a larger predatory animal like a dog or a cayote might be able to develop some sense of identification with the smaller victims they terrorize? No, I'm not suggesting throwing the cat to a pack of cayotes! But I'm wondering, can cats be taught compassion, and if so, how? -Garret "Garret Swayne" wrote in message ink.net... My cat Zacky is an indoor/outdoor cat, and he's forever bringing home prey that he catches. Every week or so, I'll come home and find a bloody lifeless bird in my living room (and the room full of feathers!) Or a lizard. Or a mouse. Or these really weird worms that are not snails or slugs, but look like snails without their shell. He also brings in these really huge grasshoppers and then torture them to death, leaving large insect carcasses throughout the house. It's like living with a feline serial murderer! Occasionally, I'll catch him as he's bringing in his captive still alive and as yet unharmed. So I'll give him a stern NO, take it from his mouth, and carry it outside to release it. This kind of ****es him off, but I'm not sure what else to do. I really want to discourage such behavior. Any ideas? -Garret garret at garretswayne dot com |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
"Garret Swayne" writes:
-to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? I don't think looking at it as a "gift" is the right perpective. As you say, it's too complex a trait to attribute to a cat. Mother cats will bring home kills for the kittens. That may be the basis of the evolution of the instinct. Instincts aren't reasoned, they are built in. Most likely the instinct operates in females even when they don't have kittens and in males even though they don't normally provide food for kittens. After a cat kills it's prey and eats it's fill it is no longer hungry and it's no longer satisfying the hunting instinct. Therefore weaker instincts are going to take over. It's going to return home, why not take the animal with it? It's not a complex behavior, it doesn't require complex motives to operate. We once had a mother cat bring home a full grown pheasant. Small cat, really large bird. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
Garret Swayne wrote:
Well thanks for all the comments. I know hunting is an instinct in cats. But really, that doesn't make me feel any better about it when I have to pick up the broken body of a terrified, mortally wounded bird! There are a lot of instincts which we civilized types would like to discourage in our kitty companions! The two suggestions that I found most interesting we -to stick a bell on Zack's neck to warn the birds of his stealthy approach (This is a practical suggestion I will seriously consider.) -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? And that by my expressing displeasure, I will only encourage more of the offensive behavior? I would think that by praising the animal, that's what would encourage more of the killing behavior! But I'm open to being educated about this, from valid scientific sources. The question I'm really asking is this: Is there any way in the world to teach a cat the concept of compassion? That'd be a nice trick, eh? Like maybe a cat who's been traumatized by a larger predatory animal like a dog or a cayote might be able to develop some sense of identification with the smaller victims they terrorize? No, I'm not suggesting throwing the cat to a pack of cayotes! But I'm wondering, can cats be taught compassion, and if so, how? -Garret My cat was traumatized by a dog when she was a little bitty and shows no mercy to anything smaller than her - including my hand. So it might have to be assaulted by something smaller to realize that brawn doesn't always work. Just sayin'.... Kathy |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
"Dan Espen" wrote in message ... "Garret Swayne" writes: -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? I don't think looking at it as a "gift" is the right perpective. As you say, it's too complex a trait to attribute to a cat. Mother cats will bring home kills for the kittens. That may be the basis of the evolution of the instinct. Instincts aren't reasoned, they are built in. Most likely the instinct operates in females even when they don't have kittens and in males even though they don't normally provide food for kittens. After a cat kills it's prey and eats it's fill it is no longer hungry and it's no longer satisfying the hunting instinct. Therefore weaker instincts are going to take over. It's going to return home, why not take the animal with it? It's not a complex behavior, it doesn't require complex motives to operate. We once had a mother cat bring home a full grown pheasant. Small cat, really large bird. Large birds of prey will sometimes kill cats....I had a cat who was almost killed by a large osprey....It swooped down onto my rear deck while the cat was sunning itself, and almost got it....Fortunately, the cat door to our bedroom was right next to the cat, so it escaped inside before the bird could get her......but it was a close call...... |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
William Graham submitted this idea :
"Alison" wrote in message ... "Garret Swayne" wrote in message ink.net... My cat Zacky is an indoor/outdoor cat, and he's forever bringing home prey that he catches. Every week or so, I'll come home and find a bloody lifeless bird in my living room (and the room full of feathers!) Or a lizard. Or a mouse. Or these really weird worms that are not snails or slugs, but look like snails without their shell. He also brings in these really huge grasshoppers and then torture them to death, leaving large insect carcasses throughout the house. It's like living with a feline serial murderer! Occasionally, I'll catch him as he's bringing in his captive still alive and as yet unharmed. So I'll give him a stern NO, take it from his mouth, and carry it outside to release it. This kind of ****es him off, but I'm not sure what else to do. I really want to discourage such behavior. Any ideas? -Garret garret at garretswayne dot com You could put a liberator collar on him though that won't help with slugs and things. http://www.liberators.com.au/ Cats are hunters so is natural for them to bring their prey home. Alison Yes. At least mine puts the bodies on the floor somewhere. (usually the bathroom floor) I had a friend whose cat used to leave the bird's feet on his pillow........:^) My female cat does all the hunting. My lazy tomcat then stuffs dead mice under the furniture. -- Count Baldoni BALDONI REX ROMANORUM |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
on 17/06/2007, William Graham supposed :
"The Horny Goat" wrote in message ... On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:29:09 -0700, "William Graham" wrote: Yes. At least mine puts the bodies on the floor somewhere. (usually the bathroom floor) I had a friend whose cat used to leave the bird's feet on his pillow........:^) One of the defining moments of my teen years was when our cat brought my mother a bird. It was 30 years ago and I still remember her over-reaction even though she had had cats in her life since girlhood. Yeah...I'm always afraid I will insult them if I don't show pleasure....After all, they are giving you a gift to pay you back for all the food you give them....When you go to the supermarket, I figure they think you are out hunting.... I never thought of it like that. -- Count Baldoni BALDONI REX ROMANORUM |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
On Jun 17, 7:58 am, "Garret Swayne" wrote:
Well thanks for all the comments. I know hunting is an instinct in cats. But really, that doesn't make me feel any better about it when I have to pick up the broken body of a terrified, mortally wounded bird! There are a lot of instincts which we civilized types would like to discourage in our kitty companions! The two suggestions that I found most interesting we -to stick a bell on Zack's neck to warn the birds of his stealthy approach (This is a practical suggestion I will seriously consider.) -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? And that by my expressing displeasure, I will only encourage more of the offensive behavior? I would think that by praising the animal, that's what would encourage more of the killing behavior! But I'm open to being educated about this, from valid scientific sources. Cats are social animals; they're not pack hunters, but they are social animals. Feral and semi-feral colonies have been videotaped; females share prey with their offspring and with their sisters. They not only babysit but actually nurse each other's kittens. Even the males, who rove more, will sometimes share prey with the resident females. When we bring cats into our homes, we make ourselvs part of their "colony," their social grouping. And they respond to us in some ways as if they were our kittens, in some ways as if we were their kittens, in some ways as if we were their siblings. Sharing prey is a normal and natural part of that. And no, even though sharing is normal for them and they are bringing us a gift when they bring us prey, they are not smart enough to figure out that it's not the kind of "gift" we want--nor would they have much ability to bring us a different kind of gift even if they did figure it out. It's not like they can take their American Express card and pick up something nice at Nordstrom's, after all. What they do is hunt, and they share with us what they catch. It _should_ give you a warm glow. It's too bad Zack has apparently focused on birds as his preferred prey, rather than rodents. You do want to prevent or discourage that, if you can. Keep him indoors, or put bells on his collar. The question I'm really asking is this: Is there any way in the world to teach a cat the concept of compassion? That'd be a nice trick, eh? Like maybe a cat who's been traumatized by a larger predatory animal like a dog or a cayote might be able to develop some sense of identification with the smaller victims they terrorize? No, I'm not suggesting throwing the cat to a pack of cayotes! But I'm wondering, can cats be taught compassion, and if so, how? No, you can't teach your cat compassion for members of its natural prey species. They're cats, the most efficient predators on the planet (number of species killed, number of individuals killed, hunting success rate--cats are deadly hunters.) Sharing with colony members is part of their repertoire; compassion for prey species is not. A cat traumatized by a larger predator will not feel any sense of identification with its own prey; it will just be a traumatized cat. The most effective way of preventing your cat from killing the local bird population is by keeping him indoors. If that's not practical, put bells on his collar, and that will reduce his success rate. Lis |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
"Garret Swayne" wrote in message ink.net... My cat Zacky is an indoor/outdoor cat, and he's forever bringing home prey that he catches. Every week or so, I'll come home and find a bloody lifeless bird in my living room (and the room full of feathers!) Or a lizard. Or a mouse. Or these really weird worms that are not snails or slugs, but look like snails without their shell. He also brings in these really huge grasshoppers and then torture them to death, leaving large insect carcasses throughout the house. It's like living with a feline serial murderer! Occasionally, I'll catch him as he's bringing in his captive still alive and as yet unharmed. So I'll give him a stern NO, take it from his mouth, and carry it outside to release it. This kind of ****es him off, but I'm not sure what else to do. I really want to discourage such behavior. Any ideas? -Garret garret at garretswayne dot com I just read through this thread and the ignorance just amazes me. Read the following and then do the right thing and keep your cat indoors where it belongs. http://www.wildliferescueleague.org/cats.html http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/ Dave |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Help, my cat is a serial killer!
"Lis" wrote in message ps.com... On Jun 17, 7:58 am, "Garret Swayne" wrote: Well thanks for all the comments. I know hunting is an instinct in cats. But really, that doesn't make me feel any better about it when I have to pick up the broken body of a terrified, mortally wounded bird! There are a lot of instincts which we civilized types would like to discourage in our kitty companions! The two suggestions that I found most interesting we -to stick a bell on Zack's neck to warn the birds of his stealthy approach (This is a practical suggestion I will seriously consider.) -to not react with anger or displeasure at the sight of his kill, for it's really a "gift" that he's offering me and I don't want to appear "ungracious". Now this latter observation, I must say, I can't help but be skeptical about. Is that really true? Or are we just stretching to ascribe "positive" human attributes to our feline buddies, whom we love and cherish? If cats were really "givers" by nature, I'd think they're smart enough to figure out a lot of other things we'd prefer to receive rather than a dead carcass! Seriously, is there any scientific research to suggest that they really are bringing us what they consider a "gift"? And that by my expressing displeasure, I will only encourage more of the offensive behavior? I would think that by praising the animal, that's what would encourage more of the killing behavior! But I'm open to being educated about this, from valid scientific sources. Cats are social animals; they're not pack hunters, but they are social animals. Feral and semi-feral colonies have been videotaped; females share prey with their offspring and with their sisters. They not only babysit but actually nurse each other's kittens. Even the males, who rove more, will sometimes share prey with the resident females. When we bring cats into our homes, we make ourselvs part of their "colony," their social grouping. And they respond to us in some ways as if they were our kittens, in some ways as if we were their kittens, in some ways as if we were their siblings. Sharing prey is a normal and natural part of that. And no, even though sharing is normal for them and they are bringing us a gift when they bring us prey, they are not smart enough to figure out that it's not the kind of "gift" we want--nor would they have much ability to bring us a different kind of gift even if they did figure it out. It's not like they can take their American Express card and pick up something nice at Nordstrom's, after all. What they do is hunt, and they share with us what they catch. It _should_ give you a warm glow. It's too bad Zack has apparently focused on birds as his preferred prey, rather than rodents. You do want to prevent or discourage that, if you can. Keep him indoors, or put bells on his collar. The question I'm really asking is this: Is there any way in the world to teach a cat the concept of compassion? That'd be a nice trick, eh? Like maybe a cat who's been traumatized by a larger predatory animal like a dog or a cayote might be able to develop some sense of identification with the smaller victims they terrorize? No, I'm not suggesting throwing the cat to a pack of cayotes! But I'm wondering, can cats be taught compassion, and if so, how? No, you can't teach your cat compassion for members of its natural prey species. They're cats, the most efficient predators on the planet (number of species killed, number of individuals killed, hunting success rate--cats are deadly hunters.) Sharing with colony members is part of their repertoire; compassion for prey species is not. A cat traumatized by a larger predator will not feel any sense of identification with its own prey; it will just be a traumatized cat. The most effective way of preventing your cat from killing the local bird population is by keeping him indoors. If that's not practical, put bells on his collar, and that will reduce his success rate. Lis Yes....Our cats think of the raccoons we feed as part of the family, but then, the raccoons are big enough to take care of themselves, and so it's really the raccoons who don't kill the cats that I should be talking about. The birds, even though we feed them, are considered fair game by the cats....fortunately, the cats aren't fast enough to kill very many of them.....I can only remember about three or four birds total in over 10 years, and we have fed many thousands of birds all Winter during that same time period, so the birds are way ahead....We are careful to hang the bird feeders out of the reach of the cats......Well fed cats aren't very good at hunting.....It's not a matter of life and death for them, so they just play at it.....It's significant that our feral cat never hunts for birds (or anything else) at all. He has become totally dependent on our cat food, and couldn't care less if he never had to hunt for anything again. I doubt if you could teach your cats compassion....They have identified over 100 different sounds cats make to communicate, and compassion is not one of them....... |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Vetenarian 'killer' | eleaticus | Cat community | 19 | December 17th 06 03:31 AM |
Vetenarian 'killer' | Julie Porter | Cat community | 7 | November 14th 06 12:00 AM |
Vetenarian 'killer' | eleaticus | Cat health & behaviour | 1 | November 11th 06 11:29 PM |