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#1
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
I read an article in 'Best Friends' magazine (the cat rescue organization in
the U.S., with whom I've sponsored two animals) about how people in Australia generally consider cats as nuisances, not good pets and "not friendly". Knowing we have a number of cat-loving Australians here in rpca, I really have to question what I was reading. Is it true the shelters (and the government in general) doesn't believe in shelters neutering/spaying or spay/neuter programs vs. euthanizing cats? Not criticizing what 'Best Friends' said, but they stated that when Australia was being colonized the cats were accepted as rat catchers on ships that brought people (many British convicts) over the cats were accepted. But once the cats were turned loose at the docks of Sydney they started killing local wildlife. And they didn't mention birds, no, not at all. They (via someone in Australian authority) mentioned they were killing wallabees and koala bears. I may be incredibly ignorant, but I fail to see how a "domestic" sized cat could kill a wallaby. Or even a koala bear, which may appear to be gentle but which have very large sharp claws. They aren't cuddly bears. Are they publishing the truth or is it just so much guff to try to stir people up because cats need to get more recognition as pets in Australia? Jill |
#2
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
"jmcquown" wrote in message
... I read an article in 'Best Friends' magazine (the cat rescue organization in the U.S., with whom I've sponsored two animals) about how people in Australia generally consider cats as nuisances, not good pets and "not friendly". Knowing we have a number of cat-loving Australians here in rpca, I really have to question what I was reading. Is it true the shelters (and the government in general) doesn't believe in shelters neutering/spaying or spay/neuter programs vs. euthanizing cats? Not criticizing what 'Best Friends' said, but they stated that when Australia was being colonized the cats were accepted as rat catchers on ships that brought people (many British convicts) over the cats were accepted. But once the cats were turned loose at the docks of Sydney they started killing local wildlife. And they didn't mention birds, no, not at all. They (via someone in Australian authority) mentioned they were killing wallabees and koala bears. I may be incredibly ignorant, but I fail to see how a "domestic" sized cat could kill a wallaby. Or even a koala bear, which may appear to be gentle but which have very large sharp claws. They aren't cuddly bears. But are generally slow and dopey, with woeful eyesight. A cat would have no trouble sneaking up on one. Perhaps the cat wouldn't kill an adult directly, but the adult koala would sustain injuries that would lead to its death. The cat would easily kill a baby or juvenile koala - and what would happen to a baby koala if its mother was injured or killed by a cat? It would die too. Ditto with wallabies (the smallest wallaby, btw, is the size of a mouse) Are they publishing the truth or is it just so much guff to try to stir people up because cats need to get more recognition as pets in Australia? Its probably a little of both. There is no native equivalent of the domestic cat in Australia. Domestic cats eveolved in a far more competitave ecology, one that was filled with relatively small, fast moving, prolifically breeding prey with an insitinctual reaction to a cat - run and hide! The same cannot be said for our native fauna. Similarly sized native fauna, and the young of larger fauna are in comparison, slow, stupid, have no idea what to do in the face of a cat, and don't breen prolifically - maybe only one or two youung per year as opposed to the 'millions' such things as rabbits and mice make. Whilst the cats introduced into Australia were origianlly to keep the rat & mouse population down (which were also intorduced to Australia) the cats - not being stupid - quickly found easier prey to catch. Native mice, native marsupials (we don't have native mammals bar the dingo), and of course, young koalas, young wallabies etc etc (and koalas and some wallabies really aren't that big - size of a hare or thereabouts). Cats catch native birds, too, but the ground animals are much easier prey than birds (which by and large are quite smart compared to the marsupials) We also don't have anythign that would prey on the domestic cat. So we have a huge problem. Not only that, the cats out there in the bush are generally not 'domestic', they've gone generationally feral. Through natural selection, Australia has two type sof 'domestic' cat - the house cat, and the 'bush' cat. The hosue cat is still the same size and temperament of house cats around the world, the 'bush' cat is significantly bigger, smarter and far far meaner. The 'bush' cat could not be re-domesticated much like a bobtail could not be domesticated, they are *wild*. The problem here in Australia with catch, neuter, release is twofold. First, we're a big country with sod all population for the most part. You'd have to pay someone to drive a day to go inland to the scrubland, set traps, stay overnight somwhere that doens't have accomodation, then drive a day back. After a week, you'd have to do the same thing to collect the cats that were trapped. You'd have to have a small army doing this to make any difference at all, and no-one has the funding for that. Teh other problem is that even a neutered 'bush' cat can continue to decimate the native fauna for many years to come, and continue to pass disease onto the animals (domesticated and otherwise) it meets, even if its not making more bush cats. The bush cats need an eradication program, and no eradication program is 'pretty'. Please do not think of these 'bush' cats as potential pets - they aren't. They are like bob cats or small lynxes that have had a population explosion. But Australians also need to change their attitude towards domestic house cats, and they slowly are. Now both cats & dogs are required to be registed by most councils (county areas). And its alot more expensive to register an unneutered animal. Australians also need to know the impact even their little neutered housecat can have on the native wildlife in suburbia, and think very long and hard about letting said cat out between dusk & dawn, when most cats do their hunting. New Zealand, for the same reasons of unique ecology, has a similar problem. The domestic cat has directly caused the extinction of a bird that laid its nest on the beach. The kiwi - a flightless bird - is under threat. The story of the domestic cat in these two countries shows just how the 'circle of life' is actually a delicate balance, once that can easily go disasterously wrong when a species that did not evelve int hat circle is introduced. (The cane toad is another disaster story, and is pretty much exactly the same as the cat problem). Yowie |
#3
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
Yowie wrote:
There is no native equivalent of the domestic cat in Australia... [snip lots of fascinating stuff] Not only that, the cats out there in the bush are generally not 'domestic', they've gone generationally feral. Through natural selection, Australia has two type sof 'domestic' cat - the house cat, and the 'bush' cat. The hosue cat is still the same size and temperament of house cats around the world, the 'bush' cat is significantly bigger, smarter and far far meaner. The 'bush' cat could not be re-domesticated much like a bobtail could not be domesticated, they are *wild*. Wow, are you saying that the bush cat has evolved from the original domestic cat brought by ships to Australia, into a different species of feline? I didn't know about this. Are they really a separate species? Could the bush cat procreate with a house cat? (Not asking if anyone would *want* this to happen, just wondering whether it's physically possible.) Joyce -- To send email to this address, remove the triple-X from my user name. |
#4
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
"Yowie" wrote in message
... "jmcquown" wrote in message ... I read an article in 'Best Friends' magazine (the cat rescue organization in the U.S., with whom I've sponsored two animals) about how people in Australia generally consider cats as nuisances, not good pets and "not friendly". Knowing we have a number of cat-loving Australians here in rpca, I really have to question what I was reading. Is it true the shelters (and the government in general) doesn't believe in shelters neutering/spaying or spay/neuter programs vs. euthanizing cats? Not criticizing what 'Best Friends' said, but they stated that when Australia was being colonized the cats were accepted as rat catchers on ships that brought people (many British convicts) over the cats were accepted. But once the cats were turned loose at the docks of Sydney they started killing local wildlife. And they didn't mention birds, no, not at all. They (via someone in Australian authority) mentioned they were killing wallabees and koala bears. I may be incredibly ignorant, but I fail to see how a "domestic" sized cat could kill a wallaby. Or even a koala bear, which may appear to be gentle but which have very large sharp claws. They aren't cuddly bears. But are generally slow and dopey, with woeful eyesight. A cat would have no trouble sneaking up on one. Perhaps the cat wouldn't kill an adult directly, but the adult koala would sustain injuries that would lead to its death. The cat would easily kill a baby or juvenile koala - and what would happen to a baby koala if its mother was injured or killed by a cat? It would die too. Ditto with wallabies (the smallest wallaby, btw, is the size of a mouse) Are they publishing the truth or is it just so much guff to try to stir people up because cats need to get more recognition as pets in Australia? Its probably a little of both. There is no native equivalent of the domestic cat in Australia. Domestic cats eveolved in a far more competitave ecology, one that was filled with relatively small, fast moving, prolifically breeding prey with an insitinctual reaction to a cat - run and hide! The same cannot be said for our native fauna. Similarly sized native fauna, and the young of larger fauna are in comparison, slow, stupid, have no idea what to do in the face of a cat, and don't breen prolifically - maybe only one or two youung per year as opposed to the 'millions' such things as rabbits and mice make. Whilst the cats introduced into Australia were origianlly to keep the rat & mouse population down (which were also intorduced to Australia) the cats - not being stupid - quickly found easier prey to catch. Native mice, native marsupials (we don't have native mammals bar the dingo), and of course, young koalas, young wallabies etc etc (and koalas and some wallabies really aren't that big - size of a hare or thereabouts). Cats catch native birds, too, but the ground animals are much easier prey than birds (which by and large are quite smart compared to the marsupials) We also don't have anythign that would prey on the domestic cat. So we have a huge problem. Not only that, the cats out there in the bush are generally not 'domestic', they've gone generationally feral. Through natural selection, Australia has two type sof 'domestic' cat - the house cat, and the 'bush' cat. The hosue cat is still the same size and temperament of house cats around the world, the 'bush' cat is significantly bigger, smarter and far far meaner. The 'bush' cat could not be re-domesticated much like a bobtail could not be domesticated, they are *wild*. The problem here in Australia with catch, neuter, release is twofold. First, we're a big country with sod all population for the most part. You'd have to pay someone to drive a day to go inland to the scrubland, set traps, stay overnight somwhere that doens't have accomodation, then drive a day back. After a week, you'd have to do the same thing to collect the cats that were trapped. You'd have to have a small army doing this to make any difference at all, and no-one has the funding for that. Teh other problem is that even a neutered 'bush' cat can continue to decimate the native fauna for many years to come, and continue to pass disease onto the animals (domesticated and otherwise) it meets, even if its not making more bush cats. The bush cats need an eradication program, and no eradication program is 'pretty'. Please do not think of these 'bush' cats as potential pets - they aren't. They are like bob cats or small lynxes that have had a population explosion. But Australians also need to change their attitude towards domestic house cats, and they slowly are. Now both cats & dogs are required to be registed by most councils (county areas). And its alot more expensive to register an unneutered animal. Australians also need to know the impact even their little neutered housecat can have on the native wildlife in suburbia, and think very long and hard about letting said cat out between dusk & dawn, when most cats do their hunting. New Zealand, for the same reasons of unique ecology, has a similar problem. The domestic cat has directly caused the extinction of a bird that laid its nest on the beach. The kiwi - a flightless bird - is under threat. The story of the domestic cat in these two countries shows just how the 'circle of life' is actually a delicate balance, once that can easily go disasterously wrong when a species that did not evelve int hat circle is introduced. (The cane toad is another disaster story, and is pretty much exactly the same as the cat problem). Yowie From everything I've read and learned since I first became interested in Australia, a very large number of the problems Australia has have been caused by animals that were introduced by visitors and settlers. Australia has such a fascinating, unique ecology that it is really sad to see it being destroyed. Joy |
#5
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
wrote in message
... Yowie wrote: There is no native equivalent of the domestic cat in Australia... [snip lots of fascinating stuff] Not only that, the cats out there in the bush are generally not 'domestic', they've gone generationally feral. Through natural selection, Australia has two type sof 'domestic' cat - the house cat, and the 'bush' cat. The hosue cat is still the same size and temperament of house cats around the world, the 'bush' cat is significantly bigger, smarter and far far meaner. The 'bush' cat could not be re-domesticated much like a bobtail could not be domesticated, they are *wild*. Wow, are you saying that the bush cat has evolved from the original domestic cat brought by ships to Australia, into a different species of feline? I didn't know about this. Are they really a separate species? Could the bush cat procreate with a house cat? (Not asking if anyone would *want* this to happen, just wondering whether it's physically possible.) No, not seperate species in that they can't interbreed, more like the difference between wolves and domestic dogs. Are capable of breeding and producing viable hybrids, but you would be unwise to take a wolf cub home and expect it to grow up into the 'family dog'. There are some that maintain that the Australian 'bush' cat is a seperate 'breed' again. I don't know. Nor do I really know what to do about the problem. Its not as simple as 'catch, neuter, release', nor is it as simple as just 'cull all feral cats'. The problem is actually *human beings*, the cats and the problems they cause in Australia (and New Zealand) are merely a symptom. Yowie |
#6
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
Found a few articles ont he subject of hte Australian feral cat that appear
to be well researched and balanced. http://www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm http://www.messybeast.com/auspredicament.htm Yowie |
#7
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:25:03 -0600, "jmcquown"
wrote: I read an article in 'Best Friends' magazine (the cat rescue organization in the U.S., with whom I've sponsored two animals) about how people in Australia generally consider cats as nuisances, not good pets and "not friendly". Knowing we have a number of cat-loving Australians here in rpca, I really have to question what I was reading. Is it true the shelters (and the government in general) doesn't believe in shelters neutering/spaying or spay/neuter programs vs. euthanizing cats? Not criticizing what 'Best Friends' said, but they stated that when Australia was being colonized the cats were accepted as rat catchers on ships that brought people (many British convicts) over the cats were accepted. But once the cats were turned loose at the docks of Sydney they started killing local wildlife. And they didn't mention birds, no, not at all. They (via someone in Australian authority) mentioned they were killing wallabees and koala bears. I may be incredibly ignorant, but I fail to see how a "domestic" sized cat could kill a wallaby. Or even a koala bear, which may appear to be gentle but which have very large sharp claws. They aren't cuddly bears. Are they publishing the truth or is it just so much guff to try to stir people up because cats need to get more recognition as pets in Australia? Jill Sounds to me like somebody's an idiot. No way could a cat take down a wallaby - a young joey maybe (they start out TINY and very dependant on their mother) The biggest problem with cats in Australia is them killing small native birds - wrens, thrushes etc. Around Melbourne, cats have also done a lot of damage to the lyrebird population (lyrebirds are very large and beautiful birds but flightless and VERY slow and stupid...) Feral cats are a big problem sadly... but as many Australians are cat-lovers as in any other country! |
#8
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussiefriends
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#9
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussie friends
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
My guess would be "Yes, easily!" Evidently the Australian "bush" cats are simply the offspring of once domestic cats that reverted to the wild, many generations ago - they are probably still genetically "domestic" cats. Apparently the smaller "wildcat" species in America are genetically close enough so they can interbreed with domestic cats - I've read of cases where a bob-cat mated with a large domestic cat, resuting in kittens. OK, but bobcats didn't *descend* from domestic cats. They were already here when the domestic-cat-bearing Europeans arrived. I think Yowie was saying that the bush cats of Australia *did* descend from the domestic cats that the British brought over on their ships. There were no felines on the continent prior to that. My question was, have bush cats evolved into a different species of feline? Yowie said no, so I'll accept that, since I know much less about it than she does. Still, I find it interesting that bush cats are *larger* than house cats. As far as I know, feral cats are the same size as pet cats are in the US, so that's what led me to think that the bush cats were evolving away from their origins. Well, perhaps they are, but they still haven't gone far enough (yet) to be unable to interbreed with a house cat. (*And* to produce fertile offspring - that's the test of whether something is the same species. Many different species can interbreed, but their offspring are sterile.) Joyce -- To send email to this address, remove the triple-X from my user name. |
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I Question Something about Best Friends... need to ask our Aussiefriends
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